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My solution to mouth Breathing with a P10
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FrankNichols Offline

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Posts: 714
Joined: Mar 2016

Machine: AirSense 10 Autoset
Mask Type: Full face mask
Mask Make & Model: Resmed F10 and/or P10
Humidifier: Builtin
CPAP Pressure: 17-19
CPAP Software: ResScan SleepyHead Other Software

Other Comments: I've figured out how to get my AHI down to 5, I quit sleeping!

Sex: Male
Location: Live Oak, Florida

Post: #1
Exclaimation My solution to mouth Breathing with a P10
Yeah, dancing in the street will commence immediately and continue until instructed to stop by the police.

Some may recall my previous thread about using Poligrip to glue my lips closed in an attempt to stop mouth breathing while using the P10.

It appears that could be possible, but after struggling with it for a few nights (and naps) I found the solution unacceptable for several reasons:

1. It was difficult for me to achieve a good seal with the Poligrip because the texture was such that trying to spread it didn't work and getting s smooth even layer between the lips was critical to a good all night seal. Any imperfection resulted in a blowout.

2. Clean up every morning was more hassle than I wanted to deal with. It wasn't terrible, but was taking about 3 to 5 minutes to peel the glue off and then wash off the remaining with a warn wet wash cloth. I was concerned all that rubbing and peeling would eventually lead to sore lips.

Reading other forms and googling other solutions led me to retry the taping my mouth closed solution using a different tape. I had tried blue painters masking tape - not even close, and two different "surgical tapes" from Walmart - not even close. I found references to a 3m Tape called Micropore tape. (Here is the amazon link to what I purchased, various dealers have it at prices running $1.59 to $1.98 USD per roll.)

[commercial link removed. Instead, search Amazon for "3m micropore surgical tape 2 X 10"]


-----
Moderator Action: Link Removed
To maintain our status as an educational organization, the only commercial links allowed in this forum are to CPAP-related manufacturer websites. This is stated in the Apnea Board Rules with details given in the Commercial Links Policy section.
-----


This tape works, no if ands or buts. That does not mean you will want to use it though. This stuff sticks, seriously sticks to your face/skin. It is so stuck it could be a danger if you need to get it off fast.

What I do is cut two pieces 4 1/2 inches long and put them over my mouth one on top of the other piece. Two are needed for me, because this tape is paper and porous, and you can partially breath through it. Two pieces for me stops any measurable leak through the paper. It also reenforces the tape. I had one "blow out" the first night using a single thickness. The tape was still stuck and sealed around my mouth, but there was a mouth size hole in the middle where my agitated breathing and the 20 cm pressure punched right though it. So, I now use two layers and have no problems.

Pros

1. It works, perfectly if you follow the below instructions.

2. It is not hard to get off/clean up if you follow the below instructions.

3. It is very flexible and soft and comfortable to wear over night if you follow the below instructions.

4. It is fairly inexpensive (about $0.05 USD per night) if you follow the below instructions.

Cons.

1. You will have to give up talking after applying the tape. (well, just until you take the tape off, assuming your partner permits you too.)

2. If you have very sensitive skin, it may irritate it, because this tape REALLY sticks to your skin - it may sting a little pulling it off.

3. If you have issues with vomiting in your sleep I highly/strongly recommend not taping your mouth closed. You could drowned.

4. Do not use this method if you are coughing in your sleep. seriously, you do not want to cough with this tape on, it will not come off and the cough will be contained. (I know from personal experience Sad ) Small throat clearing coughs seems to be okay and find their way out of the nose, but not really hacking coughs. Bad mojo...

Instructions

1. Wash your face and shave - sorry guys, if you have a beard this is not for you.

2. Dry your face and possibly use an alcohol wipe to remove any remaining oils.

3. DRY your face - I use a dry towel and then a Paper towel to finish with patting dry.

4. (optional) Put a very tiny amount of Lanolin on your lips, press lips together and smear the lanolin to get a even thin coat. This is to protect your lips in case the tape tried to stick to them, I don't think it would hurt you lips, but if it happened a lot it might irritate them.

5. Cut a 4 1/2 inch piece of tape off the roll, the length will vary depending on your mouth size and should be around 2 inches longer than you mouth is wide so it will extend about 1 inch beyond your mouth on each side. You can cut or tear the tape - it is paper.

6. Fold one end of the tape over about 1/8 inch - to make a small tab that you can grab to pull the tape off in the morning.

7. Reverse pucker your lips, meaning roll your lips into your mouth leaving a narrow line where your closed mouth is and the soft lips are inside. You really don't want or need the tape stuck to the soft tissues (vermilion tissue).

8. Carefully place the tape over your mouth, I start with the tape centered on my mouth and touch it to the skin at the mouth, then slowly slide my fingers outward both up and down and side to side to smooth any wrinkles and press firmly to get complete contact and seal. Try to avoid any wrinkles. They don't seem to hurt, but I expect any wrinkle could be a source for a leak.

9. Cut or tear a second 4 1/2 inch piece of tape.

10. Fold one end of the tape over about 1/8 inch - to make a small tab that you can grab to pull the tape off in the morning.

11. Place over the first piece of tape and repeat the process trying to avoid wrinkles.

12. Spend a few more seconds pressing the tape down, and smoothing any wrinkles, making sure there is a complete seal and no loose parts that are not sticking to your skin. Wiggle your face, mouth, lips etc trying to stress or stretch the tape to reveal any place it is not stuck to your skin. If the tape is not sticking somewhere try to press it down. If it will not stick, then your face was not clean and had oil or other substances on it. Take off the tape and wash again. (I have NOT had to do this - but it could happen).

13. There is no step 13.

You are ready to sleep now with confidence you will not be able to mouth breathe with out some serious intentional effort on your part. Notice I said you will NOT be able to, it isn't optional. It is also not optional to speak or do anything else requiring you to open your mouth and push air in or out. You mouth is sealed until you take the tape off.

I have not tried to blow hard enough to cause a blow out, but considering NOTHING else I have tried could survive more than 30 minutes of my mouth breathing in my sleep, and I have not had a single blow out or leak with two layers of this tape in a couple days/nights, I expect it would be difficult to force it to leak.

I did cough once. Coughing or sneezing is not a good idea. To give you an idea, remember those cartoons where someone had stuff blowing out of their ears? Yeah, you really don't want to do this procedure/technique if you are coughing in your sleep.

Clean up in the morning.

There is no easy way to say this. It is gonna sting a little when you take it off. Fast or slow is your choice... but it will not be loose by in the morning - don't kid yourself. And getting it wet will not help, water doesn't seem to loosen it either. So, grab the little tab you made at steps 6 and 10 and pull it off. You did make the tabs right? Because if your didn't you will find it "fun" trying to scratch up a little bit of the edge from your skin so you can get a grip on it to pull it off. Good news is, if you do have to scratch up a little bit of the edge, you will remember to make the tab the next time Smile

Cost works out like this:

I purchased 6 x 2inch x 10 yard rolls for less than $2/roll.

10 yards is 360 inches.
I use about 9 inches per session (2 x 4.5 inch pieces)
360 inches / 9 inches is about 40 sessions (I say about because sometimes I tear and I am not exact.)

$2.00 / 40 sleep sessions is about $0.05 USD per session. I say session because I sometimes take naps so, I might do 2 or even 3 sessions per day. 40 sessions per roll makes about 1 month roughly. So, 12 rolls per year would cost about $24.00 USD.

Conclusion

With this tape I can now easily, comfortably and cheaply use my beloved P10 Nasal Pillows until I learn to sleep without mouth breathing. I am new at this (6 weeks now) and hope it turns out to be worth all the time and energy I put into finding a solution - lol...

I can't say if this is a solution for you too, each of us are different. I can say I firmly believe this tape will/does work. That will not be the problem for you, the problem will be the cons of doing this - it will just not be right for everyone. So, good luck and hope I didn't bore you too much Smile

Frank

I am not a Medical professional and I don't play one on the internet.
Started CPAP Therapy April 5, 2016
I'd Rather Be Sleeping
05-12-2016 03:07 PM
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FrankNichols Offline

Advisory Members

Posts: 714
Joined: Mar 2016

Machine: AirSense 10 Autoset
Mask Type: Full face mask
Mask Make & Model: Resmed F10 and/or P10
Humidifier: Builtin
CPAP Pressure: 17-19
CPAP Software: ResScan SleepyHead Other Software

Other Comments: I've figured out how to get my AHI down to 5, I quit sleeping!

Sex: Male
Location: Live Oak, Florida

Post: #2
RE: My solution to mouth Breathing with a P10
I guess I should stop posting, I seem to have a hard time playing by the rules. I apologize.

I am not a Medical professional and I don't play one on the internet.
Started CPAP Therapy April 5, 2016
I'd Rather Be Sleeping
05-12-2016 04:53 PM
Find all posts by this user Post Reply Quote this message in a reply
Mich Offline

Preferred Members-2

Posts: 119
Joined: Feb 2015

Machine: Resmed Airsense 10 Autoset For Her
Mask Type: Nasal mask
Mask Make & Model: Respironics Wisp/Resmed F10 on standby 4 allergy season
Humidifier: Airsense 10 humidifier
CPAP Pressure: 7-11
CPAP Software: SleepyHead

Other Comments: Mask recommendations: 1) Wisp 2) Eson (Avoid P10 and N10)

Sex: Female
Location: USA

Post: #3
RE: My solution to mouth Breathing with a P10
(05-12-2016 03:07 PM)FrankNichols Wrote:  Yeah, dancing in the street will commence immediately and continue until instructed to stop by the police.

Some may recall my previous thread about using Poligrip to glue my lips closed in an attempt to stop mouth breathing while using the P10.

It appears that could be possible, but after struggling with it for a few nights (and naps) I found the solution unacceptable for several reasons:

1. It was difficult for me to achieve a good seal with the Poligrip because the texture was such that trying to spread it didn't work and getting s smooth even layer between the lips was critical to a good all night seal. Any imperfection resulted in a blowout.

2. Clean up every morning was more hassle than I wanted to deal with. It wasn't terrible, but was taking about 3 to 5 minutes to peel the glue off and then wash off the remaining with a warn wet wash cloth. I was concerned all that rubbing and peeling would eventually lead to sore lips.

Reading other forms and googling other solutions led me to retry the taping my mouth closed solution using a different tape. I had tried blue painters masking tape - not even close, and two different "surgical tapes" from Walmart - not even close. I found references to a 3m Tape called Micropore tape. (Here is the amazon link to what I purchased, various dealers have it at prices running $1.59 to $1.98 USD per roll.)

[commercial link removed. Instead, search Amazon for "3m micropore surgical tape 2 X 10"]


-----
Moderator Action: Link Removed
To maintain our status as an educational organization, the only commercial links allowed in this forum are to CPAP-related manufacturer websites. This is stated in the Apnea Board Rules with details given in the Commercial Links Policy section.
-----


This tape works, no if ands or buts. That does not mean you will want to use it though. This stuff sticks, seriously sticks to your face/skin. It is so stuck it could be a danger if you need to get it off fast.

What I do is cut two pieces 4 1/2 inches long and put them over my mouth one on top of the other piece. Two are needed for me, because this tape is paper and porous, and you can partially breath through it. Two pieces for me stops any measurable leak through the paper. It also reenforces the tape. I had one "blow out" the first night using a single thickness. The tape was still stuck and sealed around my mouth, but there was a mouth size hole in the middle where my agitated breathing and the 20 cm pressure punched right though it. So, I now use two layers and have no problems.

Pros

1. It works, perfectly if you follow the below instructions.

2. It is not hard to get off/clean up if you follow the below instructions.

3. It is very flexible and soft and comfortable to wear over night if you follow the below instructions.

4. It is fairly inexpensive (about $0.05 USD per night) if you follow the below instructions.

Cons.

1. You will have to give up talking after applying the tape. (well, just until you take the tape off, assuming your partner permits you too.)

2. If you have very sensitive skin, it may irritate it, because this tape REALLY sticks to your skin - it may sting a little pulling it off.

3. If you have issues with vomiting in your sleep I highly/strongly recommend not taping your mouth closed. You could drowned.

4. Do not use this method if you are coughing in your sleep. seriously, you do not want to cough with this tape on, it will not come off and the cough will be contained. (I know from personal experience Sad ) Small throat clearing coughs seems to be okay and find their way out of the nose, but not really hacking coughs. Bad mojo...

Instructions

1. Wash your face and shave - sorry guys, if you have a beard this is not for you.

2. Dry your face and possibly use an alcohol wipe to remove any remaining oils.

3. DRY your face - I use a dry towel and then a Paper towel to finish with patting dry.

4. (optional) Put a very tiny amount of Lanolin on your lips, press lips together and smear the lanolin to get a even thin coat. This is to protect your lips in case the tape tried to stick to them, I don't think it would hurt you lips, but if it happened a lot it might irritate them.

5. Cut a 4 1/2 inch piece of tape off the roll, the length will vary depending on your mouth size and should be around 2 inches longer than you mouth is wide so it will extend about 1 inch beyond your mouth on each side. You can cut or tear the tape - it is paper.

6. Fold one end of the tape over about 1/8 inch - to make a small tab that you can grab to pull the tape off in the morning.

7. Reverse pucker your lips, meaning roll your lips into your mouth leaving a narrow line where your closed mouth is and the soft lips are inside. You really don't want or need the tape stuck to the soft tissues (vermilion tissue).

8. Carefully place the tape over your mouth, I start with the tape centered on my mouth and touch it to the skin at the mouth, then slowly slide my fingers outward both up and down and side to side to smooth any wrinkles and press firmly to get complete contact and seal. Try to avoid any wrinkles. They don't seem to hurt, but I expect any wrinkle could be a source for a leak.

9. Cut or tear a second 4 1/2 inch piece of tape.

10. Fold one end of the tape over about 1/8 inch - to make a small tab that you can grab to pull the tape off in the morning.

11. Place over the first piece of tape and repeat the process trying to avoid wrinkles.

12. Spend a few more seconds pressing the tape down, and smoothing any wrinkles, making sure there is a complete seal and no loose parts that are not sticking to your skin. Wiggle your face, mouth, lips etc trying to stress or stretch the tape to reveal any place it is not stuck to your skin. If the tape is not sticking somewhere try to press it down. If it will not stick, then your face was not clean and had oil or other substances on it. Take off the tape and wash again. (I have NOT had to do this - but it could happen).

13. There is no step 13.

You are ready to sleep now with confidence you will not be able to mouth breathe with out some serious intentional effort on your part. Notice I said you will NOT be able to, it isn't optional. It is also not optional to speak or do anything else requiring you to open your mouth and push air in or out. You mouth is sealed until you take the tape off.

I have not tried to blow hard enough to cause a blow out, but considering NOTHING else I have tried could survive more than 30 minutes of my mouth breathing in my sleep, and I have not had a single blow out or leak with two layers of this tape in a couple days/nights, I expect it would be difficult to force it to leak.

I did cough once. Coughing or sneezing is not a good idea. To give you an idea, remember those cartoons where someone had stuff blowing out of their ears? Yeah, you really don't want to do this procedure/technique if you are coughing in your sleep.

Clean up in the morning.

There is no easy way to say this. It is gonna sting a little when you take it off. Fast or slow is your choice... but it will not be loose by in the morning - don't kid yourself. And getting it wet will not help, water doesn't seem to loosen it either. So, grab the little tab you made at steps 6 and 10 and pull it off. You did make the tabs right? Because if your didn't you will find it "fun" trying to scratch up a little bit of the edge from your skin so you can get a grip on it to pull it off. Good news is, if you do have to scratch up a little bit of the edge, you will remember to make the tab the next time Smile

Cost works out like this:

I purchased 6 x 2inch x 10 yard rolls for less than $2/roll.

10 yards is 360 inches.
I use about 9 inches per session (2 x 4.5 inch pieces)
360 inches / 9 inches is about 40 sessions (I say about because sometimes I tear and I am not exact.)

$2.00 / 40 sleep sessions is about $0.05 USD per session. I say session because I sometimes take naps so, I might do 2 or even 3 sessions per day. 40 sessions per roll makes about 1 month roughly. So, 12 rolls per year would cost about $24.00 USD.

Conclusion

With this tape I can now easily, comfortably and cheaply use my beloved P10 Nasal Pillows until I learn to sleep without mouth breathing. I am new at this (6 weeks now) and hope it turns out to be worth all the time and energy I put into finding a solution - lol...

I can't say if this is a solution for you too, each of us are different. I can say I firmly believe this tape will/does work. That will not be the problem for you, the problem will be the cons of doing this - it will just not be right for everyone. So, good luck and hope I didn't bore you too much Smile

Frank

Thank you for sharing. I used plain band-aids for a while at the beginning, in time, you get used to the air pressure building up and keeping tongue behind upper teeth. I believe that setting EPR to 2 also helped. Good luck.
05-12-2016 05:06 PM
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green wings Offline

Advisory Members

Posts: 553
Joined: Feb 2016

Machine: Respironics System One RemStar Pro (460)
Mask Type: Nasal pillows
Mask Make & Model: AirFit P10
Humidifier: integrated humidifier
CPAP Pressure: 13.0 cm
CPAP Software: SleepyHead

Other Comments: using CPAP since Jan. 2016

Sex: Undisclosed
Location: US

Post: #4
RE: My solution to mouth Breathing with a P10
Amazing, Frank. Smile I'm glad that you are now able to use the P10 mask.

I have to say that your solution worries me a little. Maybe you can find a not-too-sharp tool that will cut through the tape and keep it at your bedside in case you need to get your mouth open quickly? (But maybe it's easier to remove with the tabs you make than it sounds like it is - just in case of emergency.)

I hope that the tape will work as a training aid for you and that you won't need to use it too long.
05-13-2016 08:21 AM
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FrankNichols Offline

Advisory Members

Posts: 714
Joined: Mar 2016

Machine: AirSense 10 Autoset
Mask Type: Full face mask
Mask Make & Model: Resmed F10 and/or P10
Humidifier: Builtin
CPAP Pressure: 17-19
CPAP Software: ResScan SleepyHead Other Software

Other Comments: I've figured out how to get my AHI down to 5, I quit sleeping!

Sex: Male
Location: Live Oak, Florida

Post: #5
RE: My solution to mouth Breathing with a P10
(05-13-2016 08:21 AM)green wings Wrote:  Amazing, Frank. Smile I'm glad that you are now able to use the P10 mask.

I have to say that your solution worries me a little. Maybe you can find a not-too-sharp tool that will cut through the tape and keep it at your bedside in case you need to get your mouth open quickly? (But maybe it's easier to remove with the tabs you make than it sounds like it is - just in case of emergency.)

I hope that the tape will work as a training aid for you and that you won't need to use it too long.

That is the point of the tabs, they are easy to grab and pull off the tap, it comes right off if you can hold onto something - just do't forget the tabs.

I am not a Medical professional and I don't play one on the internet.
Started CPAP Therapy April 5, 2016
I'd Rather Be Sleeping
05-13-2016 08:23 AM
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Canmore Offline

Members

Posts: 16
Joined: Nov 2015

Machine: ResMed AirSense 10 AutoSet
Mask Type: Nasal pillows
Mask Make & Model: ResMed AirFit P10
Humidifier: Built-in
CPAP Pressure: 9.0-12.4
CPAP Software: SleepyHead

Other Comments:

Sex: Male
Location: Alberta, Canada

Post: #6
RE: My solution to mouth Breathing with a P10
Hey, Frank, here's a link to a non-tape solution that employs a sports mouth guard:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N8tuVqAd8RI

(I hope that this link is okay with the moderator. It's not a commercial site.)

The video is one of many made by "The Lanky Lefty," who is actually Jason Sazama, a respiratory therapist in California with a flair for providing good CPAP info in an entertaining way.
05-13-2016 10:30 AM
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Jim Bronson Online

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Posts: 264
Joined: Dec 2014

Machine: ResMed Airsense 10 Elite
Mask Type: Nasal mask
Mask Make & Model: ResMed Mirage FX
Humidifier: Built-in
CPAP Pressure: 9.2
CPAP Software: ResScan SleepyHead

Other Comments:

Sex: Male
Location: California

Post: #7
RE: My solution to mouth Breathing with a P10
Just out of curiosity Frank, do you work for the government? LOL
I used the surgical tape trick at my doctor's recommendation for a few weeks until I was able to get the tongue trick to work. I didn't bother with tabs, but it did work fine. If I had to use it long-term, I could get used to it without a problem. My ex used this trick even when I wasn't sleeping. She convinced me it was good for my health.
05-13-2016 07:54 PM
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player Offline

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Posts: 412
Joined: Feb 2015

Machine: Resmed A10 Autoset For Her
Mask Type: Nasal pillows
Mask Make & Model: Resmed A10
Humidifier: Resmed A10 Autosset
CPAP Pressure: 11-16
CPAP Software: SleepyHead

Other Comments: It's a... mad world...

Sex: Male
Location: Canada

Post: #8
RE: My solution to mouth Breathing with a P10
You might be able to release the adhesive with 99% isopropyl alcohol.
05-14-2016 04:37 AM
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pholynyk Offline

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Posts: 308
Joined: Mar 2015

Machine: ResMed AirSense 10 APAP
Mask Type: Full face mask
Mask Make & Model: Amara View
Humidifier: included
CPAP Pressure: 11-17
CPAP Software: SleepyHead

Other Comments:

Sex: Male
Location: Ontario, Canada

Post: #9
RE: My solution to mouth Breathing with a P10
Just don't swallow or breathe while using it Smile
05-14-2016 09:59 AM
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