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Nasal vs nasal pillows: my impressions
#1
OK, so I have been on my new APAP machine for about a month now. I have mostly been using a P10 nasal pillows mask but also have an F&P Eson nasal mask. Its hard to tell for sure, but I am noticing some trends between the two masks.

I may not have enough data with the Eson but my sense is that I get a little lower AHI's with the P10. The problem with the P10 is that I seems to wake up three or four times per night. I believe the wake-ups are due to small leaks that get started when I move in my sleep. Also, water from the humidifier seems to accumulate in my nose (even with the heated hose) and then drips out which also wakes me up. My AHI's with the P10 vary from as low as .9 to the mid 2's.

With the Eson, I believe I wake up much less but my AHI's are in the mid 2's and I have never been in the 1's with the Eson.

The Eson is just more firmly held in place so I think I get fewer leaks from movements. I don't mind the fact that it has more straps and such.

Note that the leaks I am talking about are not big leaks that show up on my data record. They are just small leaks that make a little noise but I am guessing that it's enough to wake me up.

I am curious though is there is any physics to explain why I might have slightly higher AHI's with the Eson compared to the P10?

Also, I am wondering if there might be an even better nasal mask. I am open to suggestions. I was just given the Eson by Kaiser to try so it wasn't something chosen based on reviews or research. I've read the reviews for some of the other top selling nasal masks including the Dreamware but every one has folks that like it and folks that don't.
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#2
I found that P10 caused wakeful periods for me as well due to leaks and adjustments, same with the DreamWare. I'm really happy with my Wisp mask. Sorry, I can't speak to the AHI issue.
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#3
My experience is very different. Using various nasal masks, I was constantly fighting with leaks. After switching to nasal pillows (first Swift FX and than P10), leaks are the thing of the past. Even with DreamWear I had very few leaks as compared to any of the "normal" nasal masks.

As for the rain-out, increasing temperature of the hose and/or lowering temperature of the tank may help.
Other than that, you can buy or make a hose insulating cover for the P10.
You may want to check the following thread:
http://www.apneaboard.com/forums/Thread-...nt-rainout
Everything I post on this board is nothing more than an opinion expressed by an apneak. Normally, it's based on facts and experience but sometimes, I may get things wrong or not have all the facts.
I reserve the right to change my mind. Why? Because tomorrow I may know better.
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#4
Hi rhodesengr. I have the same two masks you do, and the same machine (I'm also with Kaiser in NorCal), and was just given the P10 3 days ago. I'm already noticing a lower AHI with the P10. Does seem to make a difference how you adjust the straps, though. The first two nights I had the lower strap under my hair at the base of my skull and the upper strap at the crown of my head. Last night I wore the lower strap over my hair at the back of my head, and it slid up a few times during the night, allowing the mask to leak.

One question -- how did you manage to obtain the heated-hose humidifier? Kaiser didn't provide any humidifier to me.
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#5
(02-11-2016, 11:52 AM)Winterfrost Wrote: One question -- how did you manage to obtain the heated-hose humidifier? Kaiser didn't provide any humidifier to me.

I think you just need to call them back and ask your Resp tech for the heated hose humidifier. I would not waste time with the regular humidifier if you can avoid it.

So here is how it went for me. After my 7-day trial, I went in for the data evaluation and the tech told me yes the machine helped me and yes they would get me one. The humidifier option is just a box they check on the form that orders your cpap. My original setup though was with the unheated tube. I had instant problems with water condensing in the tube would would then gurgle and wake me up. Through the forums, I found out there was the heated tube version. Who knew? There is a kit that allows converting the unheated tube version to the heated tube version which is what they order for me. The kit includes a new top to the humidifier, the heated hose, and a larger power supply. You have to remove the original top and install the new top. You also have to change some settings in the clinical setup area.

So your best bet would be to ask for the heated tube version right up front. Adding the humidifier is simple, it just plugs into the side of the basic machine. If you are not comfortable going into the clinical menu, I guess you have to get either Kaiser or Apria to do that for you.

Hope that helps. Feel free to ask for more clarification as needed.




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#6
(02-11-2016, 09:48 AM)GPSMapNut Wrote: As for the rain-out, increasing temperature of the hose and/or lowering temperature of the tank may help.
Other than that, you can buy or make a hose insulating cover for the P10.

OK. I can see how a cover on the P10 hose might help since that section is not heated. However, to be clear, I do not think I am getting condensation in the tube. My sense is that the condensation was occurring directly inside my nose. Apologies if it sounds gross, but I could feel water dripping out of my nose around the pillows. So the condensation was either on the inside pillow surfaces or in my nose.

Insulating the P10 tune would help keep the air temp up as it enter the mask.

My sense is that "rain-out" as it is termed here occurs in hose and leads to gurgling.

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#7
Condensation in the nostrils would be... well, you aren't dead cold, are you? Condensation occurs when air cools below the dew point. I would not expect this to happen in your nostrils but in the hose or in the mask. Increase hose temperature and air will not cool down as much by the time it gets to the nose. Lower humidity and the dew point gets lower.
Well, that's what I think but once, I was wrong before Wink
Everything I post on this board is nothing more than an opinion expressed by an apneak. Normally, it's based on facts and experience but sometimes, I may get things wrong or not have all the facts.
I reserve the right to change my mind. Why? Because tomorrow I may know better.
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#8
In addition to the Wisp nasal pillow alternative to the P10, there are others. I still have an older Mirage Swift LT (i think) nasal pillows mask, which I occasionally switch to. I switch back when I can't get enough air through the P10 (long term nasal rhinitis, so maybe I have lower breath pressure??), which has never bothered me on the Swift headgear.
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#9
You should not be getting water up that high. You may try backing down the humidity down some rather than trying to make the hose hotter.

OMMOHY
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