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New AirSense 10 - Persistant Small Leak
#1
New AirSense 10 - Persistant Small Leak
I have a 30 day old AirSense10.   Would it be normal to see a small baseline leak almost every night during the first 30 days?    I haven't figured out if this is normal or abnormal yet.   I do have a spare (new) water tank but have not tried switching out the water tank yet.   I'm not sure what to try yet otherwise.  
  • The unit I have is 30 days old. 
  • Only a couple of those 30 days have had sustained 0% leak periods
  • The last time there was a night with a 0% sustained leak rate was 6 days ago.
  • I have changed the hose with no improvement.
  • I have tried different masks.
  • I have only used distilled water.
  • The leak is not related to pressure (see image - 3rd OSCAR fragment in image).
  • The 1st night of use had periods of a 0% sustained leak rate.  The next 3 nights had the normal 2% to 11% baseline leak rate. (etc).


Thanks for any tips!


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#2
RE: New AirSense 10 - Persistant Small Leak
Fixed level leak like that can be from a few things.

1) Potentially a constant leak out of humidifier tank if it isn't sealed. Since you have a spare could try it although I would think you would hear if there was a leak from humidifier tank.

2) Some small leak somewhere in hose/mask.

3) Mask that is venting excessively. For example I had a P10 that I poked bigger holes in vent and that caused it to always have a baseline level of leak.

4) Not using the correct mask setting on machine. Resmed uses mask type to subtract a fixed amount from total leak rate and if you are say using a FFM setting and a nasal mask (which I believe have higher venting) then that could result in a baseline leak being reported.

So in short either a real leak somewhere or else machine isn't reporting correctly either because of setting or perhaps there is some sort of other issue (need to confirm these other items aren't the cause first).
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#3
RE: New AirSense 10 - Persistant Small Leak
I had something similar, and I can confirm that it was a faulty ResMed F20 Elbow Joint, that being the rotating part which inserts into the upper part of the Air Hose, and then clicks into the F20 Frame/Cushion Assembly.

Oddly, I only picked this up via the simplified ResMed MyAir Summary, not from OSCAR (although mainly because this didn't stand out so much what with so much additional data).

The ResMed MyAir daily overview gives you a Score for Mask Fit, and mine that usually showed a perfect score with zero leaks, started to regularly show leaks when none were there before.

I narrowed it down by swapping parts, because I had a number of F20 Masks, and so could change everything, which I carefully did one night at a time, until the common denominator was the Elbow Joint.

Nothing else had an impact. But every time I swapped the Elbow Joint in or out with another Elbow Joint, the leak returned or went, in line with the suspect unit.

I cannot see anything at all wrong with it, it makes no more noise, but if I use that Elbow Joint, the leak rate comes back.

In summary, you may need to swap out Parts until you pin point which Part is causing this. The PITA there is most do not have a pile of Parts to swap out with, but you can do it just by buying, say, a new Mask Unit, and that will allow you to test all main components related to the Mask.

If it's not that, then obviously it points back to Air Hose or Humidification Tank.

I do appreciate the frustration when faced with a niggle like this, but if you just proceed logically, and isolate the faulty part via deduction, you should pin point it.

HTH

MoreBeers
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#4
RE: New AirSense 10 - Persistant Small Leak
Talking of ResMed Elbow Joints, when I first started with CPAP, I neglected to clean the Elbow Joint well, and after a few Months, I noted it was getting grubby around the translucent circular plastic bit near to the Mask End.

So, I got work, and with a metal pick, I managed to remove what I thought was a prodigious amount of fluff and hair jammed up inside of that circular component.

It looked lovely and clean but, when I went to use it that night, it had a monumentally loud Air Leak!

I then worked out that ResMed intentionally use a fibrous material within this part, presumably to deaden noise from Air that is supposed to leak from the small holes around that area in the harder plastic part that the circular ring clips into.

So, the plastic material has to stay!

I had to scrap that Elbow Joint, but used it with an Electronic Manometer that I use when checking the output pressure because the Elbow Joint adds roughly the same leak as a Mask is designed to do when well sealed.

I now clean our Elbow Joints daily, but all I do is squirt some Baby Shampoo into the Elbow Joint right around and inside of that area, and flush out with warm, then with hot water. That keeps our Elbow Joints spotless and we've never had any further contamination build up issues in that area.

The faulty Elbow Joint to which I refer in my last Post, was a much later unit, and just brought with it an Air Leak from day one.

MoreBeers
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#5
RE: New AirSense 10 - Persistant Small Leak
MoreBeers, I assume you mean the Air Outlet Port that's removable when turned clockwise to 3:00PM?   I have never removed or wiped down that OutletPort on my unit.   I'll try popping it out and cleaning it good today.

Last night, I changed the water tank out with a new tank.   I also wiped down the two gaskets inside the tank receptacle area.    I had a rough ride last night, but it looks like I started out the night with a few small dips down to a 0% leak rate.   It looks like things are a little improved, but not all the way.   Tonight I'll try removing that Air Outlet Port and cleaning it.    I'll be out of ideas after that.

Attached images are most of the night, and a zoom in where there were a couple of dips down to 0% early on.

Thanks!


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#6
RE: New AirSense 10 - Persistant Small Leak
Looks like ResMed call the Elbow Joint the QuietAir Vent.

But it's the detachable Elbow-shaped Joint that joins the Air Hose to the Mask.

Cleaning it is wise anyway, because bacteria from your breath gets right into it, but that may not help the leak if it's a defective one like I had.

I still cannot see why it leaks, it is visually identical to the others, with no signs of damage. It could be the rubber flaps perhaps?

It doesn't make any more noise but, if I fit it, the leak rate goes up. Really odd, but it's that part that causes the leak in my case.

MoreBeers
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#7
RE: New AirSense 10 - Persistant Small Leak
While I'm here, here's an overall of last night.  It was a worse than normal night.   AHI was a 3.0, where it's normally closer to 2.0.   95% last night was a 15.98.


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#8
RE: New AirSense 10 - Persistant Small Leak
I'm guessing it's probably a slight difference in outer diameter of the ring that connects to the mask. Are there any shiny spots around the outside of it? Mine has a matte textured look and I suspect that if that texture is worn away in any given section of the ring that may break the seal.

Incidentally, one thing I noticed with the hired mask I was using previously was that sometimes if the connection between the elbow and the mask was audibly leaky, (usually just after connecting it) just rotating the elbow back and forth a bit would cause it to seal again.

- Neelix
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#9
RE: New AirSense 10 - Persistant Small Leak
I don't think it's a mask issue (not sure).   Over the last 30 days, I'm mainly used a brand new P10 but have tested 6 other masks overnight (including masks of all 3 mask types).
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#10
RE: New AirSense 10 - Persistant Small Leak
My last post was in response to MoreBeers. That being said if you're seeing the same leak across several masks then I'm thinking you could have a hole in your hose...
perhaps try running a mask fit on your machine (with the P10 attached and the nose holes obstructed) to pressurise the hose then make a ring around the hose with your fingers and run it along the length of the hose. If there are any leaks in the hose you may be able to feel the air escaping...

-Neelix
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