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New Resmed App
#21
RE: New Resmed App
I don't need an APP, I have a wife that has a good elbow.  I have bruises to prove it.   Rolleyes
I am NOT a doctor.  I try to help, but do not take what I say as medical advice.


Every journey, however large or small starts with the first step.

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#22
RE: New Resmed App
Look forward to seeing more comments here

My sleep doctor has never talked about sleep quality. I hope to have a referral to a new sleep doctor soon. (Ontario, Canada.)
DaveL
Compliant for 30+ years

Membership in the Advisory Members group does not imply medical expertise or qualification for advising Sleep Apnea patients concerning their treatment.
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#23
RE: New Resmed App
I tried it last weekend and the APP had some bugs. The APP was updated a couple days ago so hopefully the bugs are gone. I'll try it again this weekend.
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#24
RE: New Resmed App
So the app is supposed to work with the $150 SleepScore Max RF sensor.

Quote:"A REVOLUTIONARY SLEEP IMPROVEMENT SYSTEM

SleepScore Max is powered by SleepScore by ResMed™ technology, providing the most accurate sleep tracking next to clinical sleep measures. Without requiring you to wear a device or place anything on your bed, SleepScore Max measures the quality and quantity of your sleep. The measurements captured by SleepScore Max inform you with meaningful quality scores, personalized insights, and actionable advice, all accessible in our expertly designed Sleep Guide.

    Shown to enhance your sleep quality in 1 week1
    Improved sleepers increased an average of 45 minutes
    Features SleepScore by ResMed™ technology
    Provides personalized, science-based advice
    Recommends validated sleep solutions
    1 time cost of $149.99, no subscription needed'
-From ResMeds Sleepscore website.

They've summarized their comparison of App only results using "sonar" to the RF device results to PSG results. The sonar and RF devices are so close by their own reckoning I'm not sure why they even sell the RF device (currently sold out).

https://gkng5olag22mpz1r551iq1dd-wpengin...heet-1.pdf

This seems interesting if valid. I wish the APAP I'm trialing had data channels for how much I'm actually sleeping as opposed to just my AHI since I feel lest rested at 11 CSAI than I did at 34RDI pre-pap trial. Seems like they could integrate the RF into the next devices. But I don't know if using a PAP messes with their measurement methods.
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#25
RE: New Resmed App
Movement, position, sound, etc. cannot be much more than a proxy for the determination of real sleep, especially the breakdown of data into sleep stages. To do the job right, you need an EEG. Backward correlation of a device's findings with polysomnography still does not prove their case. And testing the device during a sleep test might be unproductive due to the artificial influence of the test wires and protocols themselves.

However, if a pseudo-scientific app causes you to concentrate on your issues and promotes better habits and compliance, it has some value.
"The object in life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane." -- Marcus Aurelius
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#26
RE: New Resmed App
(07-07-2018, 04:20 PM)srlevine1 Wrote: Movement, position, sound, etc. cannot be much more than a proxy for the determination of real sleep, especially the breakdown of data into sleep stages. To do the job right, you need an EEG. Backward correlation of a device's findings with polysomnography still does not prove their case. And testing the device during a sleep test might be unproductive due to the artificial influence of the test wires and protocols themselves.

However, if a pseudo-scientific app causes you to concentrate on your issues and promotes better habits and compliance, it has some value.

I have a much different bar for what I'd call "pseudo-scientific." This device uses what seem to be valid, if imperfect, correlations. I think of pseudo-science as things which are utter nonsense, such as dowsing or detecting and manipulating human "energy fields" with your hands (aka reiki). Even PSGs are a bit of voodoo science. As Resmed points out in an attempt to defend their correlations, "human PSG interscorer agreement is 73% (Norman et al., 2000)." So accuracy doesn't have to be 100% for a diagnostic method to be not only clinically valid, but the "gold standard". (I'm not saying the the SleepScore Max RF unit is clinically valid, merely that I wouldn't call it "pseudo-science".)

The SleepScore Max seems to be a revamp of ResMed's S+, only at twice the price. An amazon reviewer noted if they just stayed still while awake the S+ scored them as asleep. So, definitely not perfect. But possibly useful to a degree.
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#27
RE: New Resmed App
(06-19-2018, 08:36 AM)Sleep2Snore Wrote: I don't need an APP, I have a wife that has a good elbow.  I have bruises to prove it.   Rolleyes

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#28
RE: New Resmed App
You are right about the differences in our standards. Must be my age. I grew up in a world of calibrated standards, verifiable instruments, and marketing consisted of a list of technical specifications and sometimes the differences between models and the features of competitors. Until someone performs a study with decent methodology, a statistically sound sample size over the target cohort, repeatable results, it just comes out as pseudo-science. 

I know too many app developers that are interested in marketing points, brand extensions, and whose hardware plus algorithmic software appears to produce results. But, then again, I can find evidence of confirmation bias and the tendency to see that which one expects to see. 

I think it would be great if you could determine if you were actually sleeping (and perhaps the stages of sleep) in a contactless manner and then integrate your xPAPs findings over that period of time for a comprehensive look at your sleep behavior. But what I have found with proxies, algorithms, and other devices such as pulse oximeters, your results will vary. With a heart arrhythmia (PACs and PVCs), even more direct measurements using a 12-lead EKG or the internal AICD readings only provide approximations of my heart rate on an irregularly irregular basis. So while an accelerometer can estimate steps, the corresponding HR varies wildly. 

BTW, I was not being negative, I was being me.
"The object in life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane." -- Marcus Aurelius
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#29
RE: New Resmed App
I downloaded the app but after 7 days I got rid of it due to it saying it had signal problems 4 out of the seven days I tried it. Since it was located right next to the Wi-Fi, it was hard to believe it couldn't get a signal. I wish it would have worked as it was a great way for me to differentiate false events when I awoke in the night. I tried to download on my Android to see if that would help but it's not available as yet.
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#30
RE: New Resmed App
After going back and reading all the posts on the topic of SleepScore, it seems to me some us are pissing in the wind when we scoff at technology. I am sure at one time many were saying the same thing about Sleepyhead software. Personally I have more confidence in a company like Resmed, who are pioneers in the sleep study industry. One of the abilities SleepScore has, is tracking when I wake up and fall back to sleep. Is it accurate? Maybe, maybe not, but it matched perfectly with the time I woke, for a nature call on Sleepyhead. Since SleepScore showed I was awake for 40 minutes, it proved the Oa's and hypopneas truly didn't happen as my graph showed, since I was awake.

Is there anything wrong with using different apps to fine tune my therapy? Certainly not if it improves my health and my attitude. One thing I can unequivocally say is if it wasn't for Sleepyhead and its dedicated members, I would have given up on my therapy. How many others already gave up on therapy because they weren't aware of the options available to them? How many have or will die? Most of us should be smart enough to know good technology from bad. 

The bottom line is simply this. If the medical profession, doctor's, sleep doctors and DME's would be more thorough in doing their job, maybe we wouldn't need to be looking into all this technology. If I had to depend on the sleep doctor or DME's I have had the past 15 months, my wife would be placing flowers on my grave. Instead, she will just have to figure out a way to put up  with me another 10-15 years.
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