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New member having difficulty
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Slim1950 Offline

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Posts: 35
Joined: Oct 2016

Machine: Philips Respironics Bipap System One
Mask Type: Nasal mask
Mask Make & Model: unsure
Humidifier: unsure
CPAP Pressure: 4-12
CPAP Software: SleepyHead

Other Comments: Down to about 2 or less AHI p/hr

Sex: Male
Location: Canada

Post: #1
New member having difficulty
I was reading somewhere online that there is such a thing as Complex Sleep Apnea. In other words -
Complex sleep apnea is a condition that occurs when a patient is identified as having OSA, but with the application of Continuous Positive Airway Pressure (CPAP) to eliminate the OSA, the patient develops Central Sleep Apnea. The cause of complex sleep apnea is not known at this time.

I have described my problem to sleep therapists, and they seem to discount what I am describing, by telling me to just hang in there and in time I will get used to the machine.

What happens to me is that while I am going to sleep, as I totally relax, after exhaling, my diaphragm doesn't involuntarily draw the next breath, and I will snap out of that state to being fully awake to consciously take a breath. This is not due to obstruction at all, and I am just barely awake enough to sense what is going on.

This happens while asleep too. I will wake up gasping for air with my bipap machine going so I know the event was not obstructive in nature. Is it possible that I have this complex condition, brought on by using CPAP?
10-04-2016 11:21 AM
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PoolQ Offline

Advisory Members

Posts: 986
Joined: Jul 2015

Machine: AirCurve 10 VAUTO
Mask Type: Full face mask
Mask Make & Model: Amara View
Humidifier: Integrated
CPAP Pressure: 6.2, 15, PS4.0
CPAP Software: SleepyHead

Other Comments:

Sex: Male
Location: Sillicon Valley

Post: #2
RE: New member having difficulty
There are lots of different names for things. You sound like what I was going through. Any reason to think you might have COPD? That is what it was with me and I would describe my situation the same as you do. It took a long time to get the sleep Doctor to hear me.

If you want to really know what is going on you need to get the sleephead software assuming it supports your machine.
It would also help a lot if you entered what machine you are using and not just the therapy type.

If you are having trouble breathing just before you go to sleep, this is not sleep apnea because you are not asleep yet-it is happening, it's just going to be called something else.
10-04-2016 11:40 AM
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Slim1950 Offline

Preferred Members

Posts: 35
Joined: Oct 2016

Machine: Philips Respironics Bipap System One
Mask Type: Nasal mask
Mask Make & Model: unsure
Humidifier: unsure
CPAP Pressure: 4-12
CPAP Software: SleepyHead

Other Comments: Down to about 2 or less AHI p/hr

Sex: Male
Location: Canada

Post: #3
RE: New member having difficulty
(10-04-2016 11:40 AM)PoolQ Wrote:  There are lots of different names for things. You sound like what I was going through. Any reason to think you might have COPD? That is what it was with me and I would describe my situation the same as you do. It took a long time to get the sleep Doctor to hear me.

Thanks for your reply.
Quit sure its not COPD. I am (I think)quite healthy for 65 yoa. Non smoker, eating right, have check ups, etc.

But I will post specifics tonight. I know it's a Philips bipap machine. And I will download that software
10-04-2016 12:14 PM
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justMongo Offline

Monitors

Posts: 3,854
Joined: Sep 2013

Machine: ResMed VPAP Auto (S9)
Mask Type: Full face mask
Mask Make & Model: ResMed Mirage Quattro
Humidifier: ResMed H5i
CPAP Pressure: 18 IPAPmax - 11 EPAPmin, PS=5
CPAP Software: Other Software

Other Comments: μολὼν λαβέ

Sex: Male
Location: Калифорния

Post: #4
RE: New member having difficulty
(10-04-2016 11:21 AM)Slim1950 Wrote:  I was reading somewhere online that there is such a thing as Complex Sleep Apnea. In other words -
Complex sleep apnea is a condition that occurs when a patient is identified as having OSA, but with the application of Continuous Positive Airway Pressure (CPAP) to eliminate the OSA, the patient develops Central Sleep Apnea. The cause of complex sleep apnea is not known at this time.

I have described my problem to sleep therapists, and they seem to discount what I am describing, by telling me to just hang in there and in time I will get used to the machine.

What happens to me is that while I am going to sleep, as I totally relax, after exhaling, my diaphragm doesn't involuntarily draw the next breath, and I will snap out of that state to being fully awake to consciously take a breath. This is not due to obstruction at all, and I am just barely awake enough to sense what is going on.

This happens while asleep too. I will wake up gasping for air with my bipap machine going so I know the event was not obstructive in nature. Is it possible that I have this complex condition, brought on by using CPAP?

What you are describing sounds like central sleep apnea. The central ventilation drive in the brain is dysfunctional. Best treatment is an ASV machine that will non-invasively ventilate a person when a breath is missed.

INFORMATION ON APNEA BOARD FORUMS OR ON APNEABOARD.COM SHOULD NOT BE CONSIDERED AS MEDICAL ADVICE. ALWAYS SEEK THE ADVICE OF A PHYSICIAN BEFORE SEEKING TREATMENT FOR MEDICAL CONDITIONS, INCLUDING SLEEP APNEA. INFORMATION POSTED ON THE APNEA BOARD WEB SITE AND FORUMS ARE PERSONAL OPINION ONLY AND NOT NECESSARILY A STATEMENT OF FACT.
10-04-2016 12:18 PM
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bernerbits Offline

Advisory Members

Posts: 102
Joined: Aug 2016

Machine: DreamStation Auto
Mask Type: Full face mask
Mask Make & Model: Amara View
Humidifier: DreamStation Auto Humidifier
CPAP Pressure: 8.5-14
CPAP Software: SleepyHead

Other Comments:

Sex: Male
Location: Nashville

Post: #5
RE: New member having difficulty
I've been on CPAP less than a month but I have had the exact same issue. I had no centrals on my polysomnograph; apparently CPAP can induce central apnea-like events when falling asleep, especially during the adjustment phase. I talked to my doc and got on Ambien to get me over the hump of getting used to CPAP.

However, what's helped take care of the breathing issues in the meantime is switching to a full face mask, upping the minimum pressure, and (on my model) adjusting the mask type setting.
(This post was last modified: 10-04-2016 12:55 PM by bernerbits.)
10-04-2016 12:33 PM
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Sleeprider Online
Wiki Editor
Advisory Members

Posts: 3,389
Joined: Dec 2014

Machine: Resmed Aircurve 10 Vauto
Mask Type: Nasal pillows
Mask Make & Model: Resmed Airfit P10
Humidifier: Resmed Climateline
CPAP Pressure: Auto Bilevel 18/9, PS 3
CPAP Software: ResScan SleepyHead EncoreBasic

Other Comments:

Sex: Male
Location: Where they make Respironics

Post: #6
RE: New member having difficulty
Slim, if you're able to download and use SleepyHead, we will be able to tell very quickly whether it matches the pattern of complex sleep apnea. Events like you're describing as you fall asleep are not actually central apnea, because you're not asleep yet, but if they occur repeatedly during sleep and especially in large numbers or clusters, that is a pretty good indicator. For your Philips BiPAP, anything prior to the System One 50 series without a SD card does not support sleepyhead. If you have a 50, 60, or Dreamstation series, you're all set.

Try to post a couple more times as you won't be able to post links or attachments without at least 4 posts...good luck!

______________________________________________
Organize your SleepyHead Data
Post your SleepyHead Data from Imgur
Robysue's Beginner's Guide to Sleepyhead
10-04-2016 12:44 PM
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trish6hundred Offline

Advisory Members

Posts: 6,452
Joined: May 2012

Machine: Resmed S9 AutoSet for Her
Mask Type: Full face mask
Mask Make & Model: Fisher & Paykel Simplus
Humidifier: H5i Heated Humidifier
CPAP Pressure: 10 - 7-20 Cm H2O
CPAP Software: Not using software

Other Comments: I started CPAP in 2008. Totally blind since birth.

Sex: Female
Location: Missouri, USA

Post: #7
RE: New member having difficulty
Hi Slim1950,
WELCOME! to the forum.!
Good luck to you with your CPAP therapy and getting used to it.
Hang in there for more responses to your post.

trish6hundred
10-04-2016 06:27 PM
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Slim1950 Offline

Preferred Members

Posts: 35
Joined: Oct 2016

Machine: Philips Respironics Bipap System One
Mask Type: Nasal mask
Mask Make & Model: unsure
Humidifier: unsure
CPAP Pressure: 4-12
CPAP Software: SleepyHead

Other Comments: Down to about 2 or less AHI p/hr

Sex: Male
Location: Canada

Post: #8
RE: New member having difficulty
I am excited to report that although it took me about 2 hours to get to sleep, I did get there finally, and stayed asleep until 5:45 this morning! Although I did wake up with a headache. AHI reading this morning was 1.7. I am assuming AHI means events per hour?
Periodic breathing was 0.

Onwards! Now I know it can be done.
(This post was last modified: 10-05-2016 06:15 AM by Slim1950.)
10-05-2016 06:14 AM
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Sleeprider Online
Wiki Editor
Advisory Members

Posts: 3,389
Joined: Dec 2014

Machine: Resmed Aircurve 10 Vauto
Mask Type: Nasal pillows
Mask Make & Model: Resmed Airfit P10
Humidifier: Resmed Climateline
CPAP Pressure: Auto Bilevel 18/9, PS 3
CPAP Software: ResScan SleepyHead EncoreBasic

Other Comments:

Sex: Male
Location: Where they make Respironics

Post: #9
RE: New member having difficulty
Good news! At least you put an issue you were worried about to rest. That's what we use the data for.

______________________________________________
Organize your SleepyHead Data
Post your SleepyHead Data from Imgur
Robysue's Beginner's Guide to Sleepyhead
10-05-2016 08:32 AM
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Slim1950 Offline

Preferred Members

Posts: 35
Joined: Oct 2016

Machine: Philips Respironics Bipap System One
Mask Type: Nasal mask
Mask Make & Model: unsure
Humidifier: unsure
CPAP Pressure: 4-12
CPAP Software: SleepyHead

Other Comments: Down to about 2 or less AHI p/hr

Sex: Male
Location: Canada

Post: #10
RE: New member having difficulty
I downloaded and installed the Sleepyhead software and have imported my data. How do I upload it so that you can read and interpret the results?
10-05-2016 08:37 AM
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