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New to CPAP [Battery Power Needs for Apap’s]
#1
New to CPAP [Battery Power Needs for Apap’s]
Hello all,

I'm new to CPAP, and trying to find a machine for off-grid living.  First, I tried the z2 auto, and based on what I can find on here (and the bluetooth connection to my phone reading it as a z1) it really is just the z1 in new packaging, failed after 3 weeks (while actually connected to the grid) in the middle of the night.  My sister has an old power hungry CPAP machine where the humidifier only sometimes works, that I used for about 10 days while visiting her and I learned that I do need humidification, not sure how much but pre-moistening with saline nasal spray is not enough. I also learned that the level of 10, even with ramp up feature is too much and will wake me, and that Oscar data reading is amazing.  So I am trying the AirMini auto with nasal pillows mask.  There isn't a lot of data available (I saw all the other resmed names worked with oscar and assumed this would too, bad me, not researched enough) with this one, but the nominal data says I woke up after 2 hours, I had a good mask seal (20/20), AHI at only 0.5 (most my events were in the wee hours during the sleep study so not a big surprise), and my pressure was 11.9 (based on the data available a useless number as it just means I was at or below this 95% of the night).  

More info: My prescription level for cpap is 10, and that is really for back sleeping.  I'm a side sleeper and my sleep study shows that on my side I only need 7.  Thus on the doctors advice (and without insurance) I went auto CPAP.  

Based on my limited experience, I think it is the going up to 12 that woke me.  In combination with the fact that it dried me out.  I had pre-moistened with a saline nasal spray. I'm using a brand new (3 days old) humidx cartridge.  I couldn't convince sleeping me to put the mask back on, and I'm not sure I'll be able to tonight either.  Mid-afternoon now and I'm still feeling dried out, from the tear ducts to the nose to the sore throat.  My mouth is no longer feeling dried out in the sun but that is what it felt like when I woke up tearing the mask off.

So I have a few questions: 
1.  Is it safe to turn the MAX number of the auto settings down to 10?
2.  Humidity, I need it, suggestions to get some?
3.  Other suggestions for my situation?
4.  If I don't get the AirMini useful for me, suggested machines with humidity and some amount of data for off-grid living?  (or machines to avoid)

Thank you for any help you can provide,

Vivian
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#2
RE: New to CPAP
You can turn down the max pressure if you feel more comfortable, but since we are unable to see data, it makes it a bit harder to advise.

I don’t know the lifespan of the AirMini, but I doubt it’s meant for everyday use.  I could be wrong in that assumption.

Here is a link that you can use to determine what machine might be best for you.  
http://www.apneaboard.com/wiki/index.php...ne_choices

The ResMed AirSense 10 AutoSet and AirSense 10 AutoSet for Her are highly recommended, and also the DreamStation Auto.  These would be fully data capable machines and will work with the
OSCAR software.  They all come with humidifiers.

Since you are living “off grid”, with the AirSense machine, just don’t register the machine.  You can place it in Airplane mode and you should be fine.

If you buy the DreamStation, just remove the modem that comes with it and don’t sign up for DreamMapper.

You don’t need a doc or DME to help set up your machine. We are always here to help.
OpalRose
Apnea Board Administrator
www.ApneaBoard.com

OSCAR Chart Organization


INFORMATION ON APNEA BOARD FORUMS OR ON APNEABOARD.COM SHOULD NOT BE CONSIDERED AS MEDICAL ADVICE.  ALWAYS SEEK THE ADVICE OF A PHYSICIAN BEFORE SEEKING TREATMENT FOR MEDICAL CONDITIONS, INCLUDING SLEEP APNEA.  INFORMATION POSTED ON THE APNEA BOARD WEB SITE AND FORUMS ARE PERSONAL OPINION ONLY AND NOT NECESSARILY A STATEMENT OF FACT.
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#3
RE: New to CPAP
Quote:So I have a few questions: 
1.  Is it safe to turn the MAX number of the auto settings down to 10?
2.  Humidity, I need it, suggestions to get some?
3.  Other suggestions for my situation?
4.  If I don't get the AirMini useful for me, suggested machines with humidity and some amount of data for off-grid living?  (or machines to avoid)

Thank you for any help you can provide,
1. Safe yes, will you be appropriately treated, maybe, I don't know.  Need data to determine this.
2. A pass thru humidifier attached between your CPAP machine and your CPAP hose. Or a new machine.
3. See below
4. A ResMed AirSense 10 AutoSet.  This is not the place to "skimp".  This IS the top of the line APAP, along with its sister the ResMed AirSense 10 AutoSet for Her.  We can help you find a VERY gently used low hours unit which should cost less than you think.

You said the Z2 failed, how did it fail, can you return it?

3.  I want you to try an experiment. get a tall glass of water and a straw, a large McDonalds cup will work.  Fill it with water and insert the straw 8 (or so) inches down.  Now blow some bubbles.  Any trouble? . . . . . . Didn't think so.  That is the MAXIMUM pressure a CPAP is capable of, 20.  I'm not saying you didn't have trouble, but it usually is something other than pressure itself.  The detailed daily charts that OSCAR produces may indicate why you are waking.  An increase in pressure suggests that you are still experiencing events that are likely obstructive in nature and that you likely need more pressure.  Again we need to see the data in order to be sure.

Define "off-grid" as you intend to use the machine, what type of power do you have.
Fred Bonjour - Project Manager and Lead Tester for OSCAR - Open Source CPAP Analysis Reporter 
OSCAR

Download OSCAR
New to Apnea? Helpful tips to ensure success
Soft Cervical Collar
Mask Primer
Dealing with a DME
Organize Charts
Attaching Charts

INFORMATION ON APNEA BOARD FORUMS OR ON APNEABOARD.COM SHOULD NOT BE CONSIDERED AS MEDICAL ADVICE. ALWAYS SEEK THE ADVICE OF A PHYSICIAN BEFORE SEEKING TREATMENT FOR MEDICAL CONDITIONS, INCLUDING SLEEP APNEA. INFORMATION POSTED ON THE APNEA BOARD WEB SITE AND FORUMS ARE PERSONAL OPINION ONLY AND NOT NECESSARILY A STATEMENT OF FACT.
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#4
RE: New to CPAP
(08-19-2019, 01:22 PM)viviantheodosia Wrote: ...
Based on my limited experience, I think it is the going up to 12 that woke me.  ...

So I have a few questions: 
1.  Is it safe to turn the MAX number of the auto settings down to 10?
2.  Humidity, I need it, suggestions to get some?
3.  Other suggestions for my situation?
4.  If I don't get the AirMini useful for me, suggested machines with humidity and some amount of data for off-grid living?  (or machines to avoid)

Thank you for any help you can provide,

Vivian

Hi, Vivian.  (My youngest's name, incidentally... Okay Smile )

The first quoted statement is telling.  As the others have cautioned, we don't have your OSCAR reports, so it's not prudent to say much except that if your machine occasionally rises to a max near 12, it's probably doing so for a well-designed, pre-conceived, reason per its programming. Something is happening that makes it think you need more pressure.  It could be related to sleeping position.  If it's almost always due to back sleeping, maybe you do more of it than you're aware of.  And, if you do, that's most often where people experience the obstructive type of apnea if they have it.  If we, or you, notice clusters of obstructive or hypopnea events every 30 or 40 minutes, that could be it.   Maybe....we'll see.

For your first question, I'm going to advise against it.  If your machine tops out at 12, it's getting the feedback from your airway that tells it you're being ventilated adequately.  I would not drop 2 whole points until I could defend doing so with some concrete and reliable information.  Something like four or five days in six or seven where the same events keep appearing in the readout.

You can use humidifiers reasonable effectively in confined spaces (bedroom) as easily as drying them with a dehumidifier.  More cash outlay, and about $50-$60 per annum in operating costs, depending on how much work you have for them.

I will decline to address your third question until I know more.

From the group of forum members who routinely try to help people with advice, you'll find that the RESMED Airsense 10 series of machines gets more enthusiasm and thumbs-up.  Apart from their engineering, design, ergonomics, and reliability, they perform very well and seem to have software driving them that works well for people.  None of us have any financial interest in the company that I know of, certainly not myself, but we simply find that they have fewer troubles getting people to sleep better.  Take that for what it's worth.
Serial Tapist
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#5
RE: New to CPAP
Thanks Bonjour, 

The Z2 stopped delivering pressure in the middle of the night, I had already turned off the autostop feature as I was having problems with it, and then I woke up due to an apnea episode and I couldn't get it to go back on.  Yes, I was able to return it.  

Yes awake me does recognize not a lot of pressure and my brain wins, and I can handle it.  Sleeping me, not so much.  I figure the detail of oscar could help, thus why I'm now looking for another machine again.  As mentioned I didn't do my research well enough.

Off-grid for me means that for basically the last year, I have no power/electricity at night.  Think home built van conversion, that I have not yet installed power into, I was about to do it, but then I got my OSA diagnosis.  Thus, I am waiting til I have an idea of the power needs of the cpap at levels that work for me before installing.  

I spend a lot of times in dry environments so I want to have a humidifier as an option, and all the boards I read for camping/off-grid use say turn off the humidifier.
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#6
RE: New to CPAP
Thanks Opalrose,

I found the battery suggested guide for ResMed, I don't understand all the different setting options they give, I'll have to research that a bit more.  Any idea how much power I can save by putting the AirSense in airplane mode?  I wasn't able to find that info.  

On the Dreamstation, I haven't found any of the power requirements.
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#7
RE: New to CPAP
(08-19-2019, 05:54 PM)viviantheodosia Wrote: Off-grid for me means that for basically the last year, I have no power/electricity at night.  Think home built van conversion, that I have not yet installed power into, I was about to do it, but then I got my OSA diagnosis.  Thus, I am waiting til I have an idea of the power needs of the cpap at levels that work for me before installing.  

Sorry, I guess I took “off grid” to mean you didn’t care to have “big brother” looking over your shoulder or having your machine transmit data to their base so to speak. Too-funny

Ok, no power/electricity at night. I don’t know much about the battery needs of the different machines available, but do know that using the humidifier will use more battery power. There are many threads here on this subject.

Stand by, I’m sure others will have some good advice for you.

I changed your Thread Title a bit to attract more responses.
OpalRose
Apnea Board Administrator
www.ApneaBoard.com

OSCAR Chart Organization


INFORMATION ON APNEA BOARD FORUMS OR ON APNEABOARD.COM SHOULD NOT BE CONSIDERED AS MEDICAL ADVICE.  ALWAYS SEEK THE ADVICE OF A PHYSICIAN BEFORE SEEKING TREATMENT FOR MEDICAL CONDITIONS, INCLUDING SLEEP APNEA.  INFORMATION POSTED ON THE APNEA BOARD WEB SITE AND FORUMS ARE PERSONAL OPINION ONLY AND NOT NECESSARILY A STATEMENT OF FACT.
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#8
RE: New to CPAP
(08-19-2019, 06:12 PM)viviantheodosia Wrote: Thanks Opalrose,

I found the battery suggested guide for ResMed, I don't understand all the different setting options they give, I'll have to research that a bit more.  Any idea how much power I can save by putting the AirSense in airplane mode?  I wasn't able to find that info.  

On the Dreamstation, I haven't found any of the power requirements.

Airplane mode, essentially none until about an hour after you stop using it.
You would set your humidifier to 0 and your heater hose to off and use passover (non-heated) humidification to conserve power.  I do suggest using a DC adapter thus you won't deal with the inefficiency of first converting to AC.  Since you are dealing with a camper you have a lot more battery options because you are not concerned with weight as a backpacker would be.
Fred Bonjour - Project Manager and Lead Tester for OSCAR - Open Source CPAP Analysis Reporter 
OSCAR

Download OSCAR
New to Apnea? Helpful tips to ensure success
Soft Cervical Collar
Mask Primer
Dealing with a DME
Organize Charts
Attaching Charts

INFORMATION ON APNEA BOARD FORUMS OR ON APNEABOARD.COM SHOULD NOT BE CONSIDERED AS MEDICAL ADVICE. ALWAYS SEEK THE ADVICE OF A PHYSICIAN BEFORE SEEKING TREATMENT FOR MEDICAL CONDITIONS, INCLUDING SLEEP APNEA. INFORMATION POSTED ON THE APNEA BOARD WEB SITE AND FORUMS ARE PERSONAL OPINION ONLY AND NOT NECESSARILY A STATEMENT OF FACT.
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#9
RE: New to CPAP [Battery Power Needs for Apap’s]
Greetings Vivian and welcome the Apnea Board.

This post assumes you will opt for the ResMed AirSense 10 AutoSet (for Her) PAP device.

You might want to start with the ResMed Battery Guide publication. Look at the data on the AirSense 10 AutoSet and AirSense10 AutoSet for Her for your particular needs.

From there it might just be a simple choice of DC to DC adapter (12 vdc "RV" to 24 vdc "ResMed"), additional battery to power your PAP equipment and perhaps a 12 volt battery isolation switch or relay so the PAP equipment does not draw down the RV's main battery. You should be able to get an isolation relay that can connect your PAP battery to the RV's charging system anytime the RV is running - to automate recharging of the PAP battery. You will have to find somebody to wire it in if not your expertise. Alternatively you may wish to passively recharge the PAP battery with a roof-top solar panel.

Search for "ResMed AirSense 10 & AirCurve 10 DC Power Supply 37297" (or similar in your search) on Amazon and/or the CPAP Supplier List for your best prices. My personal favorite is #2 - Second Wind CPAP. They have helped me save a lot of money since I am out-of-pocket, and they even price-matched. There are aftermarket power supplies for less money, but personally, I would just get the ResMed brand power supply.

You can use the built-in humidifier and heated hose so long as you have enough battery capacity to cover the power requirements (given the combination of therapy pressure, humidity level and heated hose) and over the nightly machine-time you require. I would suggest you skip the heated hose. As you will see in the ResMed Battery Guide, "heated anything" is power hungry. While PAP machines are pretty efficient, heaters are not. However your comfort level is paramount. So scaling in enough battery power for your comfort should not be difficult. And the RV's charging system can top off the PAP equipment's battery daily or as needed (above).

I may be leaving out some details but this is a good start to build a simple off-grid PAP power system.

BTW... Airplane Mode won't reduce the power requirements significantly if at all.
RayBee

  
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#10
RE: New to CPAP
(08-19-2019, 05:50 PM)mesenteria Wrote: You can use humidifiers reasonable effectively in confined spaces (bedroom) as easily as drying them with a dehumidifier.  More cash outlay, and about $50-$60 per annum in operating costs, depending on how much work you have for them.
Thank you for this suggestion.   I sent the AirMini back as it was not working for me and not giving me the data I needed to make any sort of informed decision on what to do to make my therapy work for me. I am back on my sisters old system one and have put a room humidifier just below the intake space as the cpap itself has a broken humidifier.  This gives me just enough humidity, and has the advantage of free, at least while I am at my sisters.  I'm to a week now, and only woken up once because I was all dried out and that was the night that I forgot to refill the water in the humidifier.  I'm still not getting enough sleep, but only part of that is because
As I spend so much of much of my time sleeping in the outdoors does anyone have any experience with what levels of "natural" humidity make it so the humidifier on the cpap is not needed?  From all my reading, I'm guessing it's one of those depends on the person as we are all different, and each of us is unique.  I plan to keep my own data as I go also.
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