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[News] Philips-Respironics "DreamStation" - new CPAP series on the way
(10-02-2015, 02:13 PM)Lexxus Wrote: HI, I'm still pretty new to all this stuff.....what exactly is the difference between:
Philips-Respironics DreamStation Auto BiPAP
Philips-Respironics DreamStation BiPAP Pro

I have the S9 VPAP-S and want to purchase a Respironics (it works better for me.....long story). I was tested on the Series 60 and love it, so I don't care if I get a 60series or the new one....but would like to know the difference.

The simple difference is one operates as a "auto" BiPAP - where both the IPAP and the EPAP can adjust through the night, while the second is just a regular BiPAP with a fixed IPAP and EPAP.
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Ramblingasian is correct. The auto BiPAP can operate as a fixed BiPAP just like the pro with a fixed EPAP/IPAP. The auto function is setup with a minimum EPAP and PS min and PS Max (pressure support is the difference between EPAP and IPAP), and a maximum IPAP. The PPAP and IPAP can move independently within the constraints of the settings. Works for me, and I prefer it over the simple BIPAP mode.
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(09-17-2015, 05:22 PM)DocWils Wrote:
(09-17-2015, 02:26 PM)OpalRose Wrote: DocWils,
Since I'm not in the medical field, I don't know what "certain device" that had best be left unsaid Unsure that you speak of.

You REALLY don't want to know, just leave it at that.

It's pretty obvious, if one searches the forum. And here's where I call your posts in this thread out: if you feel that one (among many) of the worldwide leaders in CE is junk... you're shooting your own credibility in the foot. Not because I'm necessarily a fan of said CE, but the fact is, they're all good in their own way. Not sure why your posts begrudge that so sharply, but it makes me lean toward taking your posts much less seriously.

I'd also argue that there's nothing "sickly" about a minimalist white surface. In fact, it makes it easier to see when it's time for a dusting/cleaning.

I've now lived with my Dreamstation Auto CPAP for over six weeks. (As opposed to inspecting it in Berlin.)

There's nothing wrong with the SD/filter lid. I can't imagine it failing in even ten years, it's just not a big deal. In fact, it keeps dust out of the SD and air intake, a desirable trait. Gravity holds it in place, there's no detente you have to push past to lift it. It has no weight or heft of its own, but seems strong enough for the intended purpose. Like anything else, though, I'd imagine it's capable of breaking if you're a klutz and push too hard past its full open position. A reasonable person would not do this, and frankly, over the course of twice a day, one would grow more deft with practice.

Another posted mentioned air noise at 15.0, but I assure you, it's not noisy at 8.0. For someone completely new to CPAP, I found it a total non-issue. I believe the other poster, by the way. So would I think a little harder about this device if I were prescribed 15.0? YES.

Humidity tank harder to service? I don't understand: you open the entire top of the humidity module, and as it swings back, the tank insert lifts and rises in its holding tray, staying level for the whole trip up, making it quite easy to remove/fill/replace. What's so hard about that?

In summary, your posts in this thread reflect a stubborn reluctance to say ANYTHING positive about this device. At the very least, that's a little odd.
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PajamaGame, I am glad you like your new device. May you have many good years of use from it and sleep well and vigorously.

I had clearly stated it in my first post and subsequent posts that it was a first impression based on a rather over-quick look in a noisy environment, I described the design flaws as I saw it based on that impression, including the possible noise problem from the redesign of the air intake, which was confirmed by another poster who now was using the device, thus showing that my first impression had some accuracy in it (and why not? I work with medical devices all day long, so I do know what I am looking at) and while I am glad it does not exhibit such noise at a fixed pressure of 8 cm, it does at higher pressures, and that may present a problem for users who need higher pressures or use variable pressures. If it is only intended to be near silent at 8 cm of air, then it is not a useful device, is it? It should then have a warning on it - do not exceed so many cm of air or noise values will increase uncomfortably. I might point out the its predecessor has no such problem at 15 cm of air.

For those who are used to the PRS 50/60, the removal of the tank is more complicated in the Dreamstation, although not by a lot, but enough to take a bit of getting used to. I found the addition of a lid over the CF card to be a hindrance, and years and years of experience working with medical devices tells me this may be a point of failure if subjected to constant use. Plastic breaks, that is a rule.

Nowhere did I use the word junk or imply that it was junk.

I did not like the new colouration, and that of course is a subject of taste, and I am pretty sure it was clear to any reader that such a thing was a matter of taste - again, I said it was impression. As for that "certain device", I really don't think I have ever described it on any thread, so I don't think it is obvious to people who don't have to deal with disgustingly and embarrassing biological aspects of medicine on the course of their daily work. It was also a bit of a medical joke, if you had a sense of humour for it.

When I get a Dreamstation in my hands for extensive testing (January, when they become available in Switzerland) I will make a more thorough report. In the meantime, I can only go on my first impressions, which is what I reported on and clearly stated as being. And my first impression was that it was a cosmetic move for the sake of cosmetic moves, adding little new to the already successful and efficient design of the PRS line, and this was of interest to those who use the PRS now and would like to know how it differs - if you have experience of the PRS, I invite you to please make the comparison between the two, so that people here may benefit from your knowledge. As it is, my impression is the redesign is strictly a marketing move to counter the A10. People I know in Philips confirm this sentiment, and the data sheets I have received do not indicate any immense improvements in the algorithms that would necessitate a redesign of the physical system. I am not a fan of redesign for redesign's sake, particularly when the original design was efficient and successful - clunky, yes, unattractive, yes, but efficient. Putting go-faster stripes on a scalpel does not make it cut any better. Again, I spoke of my first impressions, and when I get to test one, I will be able to report better on it, but yes, I will compare it to the PRS, because that is the device it is replacing and PRS users should be informed if it is a step up a step sideways or just more of the same. An informed user is a good user.

One more thing, PG, you ARE new to CPAP, I am not, nor are many people here - perhaps you might trust that experience of a wide range of devices counts for something.

As for your implication that I have a problem with CE, why would I have a problem with CE? Conformité Européene is a mandatory marking system for medical and consumer devices, and I can recall no time I have spoken against it here or anywhere. Philips is not a leader in CE - CE is a mandatory mark they and all manufacturers have to have, showing that it passes safety standards. The leader in CE is the organisation that administers it, not the manufacturers. Why you should even bring it up is beyond me - I never have, and it is a most unusual region to discuss, particularly as I get the impression you are not European, and CE is strictly for Europe. North America and other region have heir own certification authorities. One is neither a fan nor not a fan of such things - they are the regulatory hoops one has to jump through if one puts a product on the market.
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Its interesting that cpap users tend to focus on why the Dreamstation is better for them. My take is that we are somewhat secondary in the motivation by Philips to introduce the Dreamstation. Yes, a new model gives the company the opportunity to introduce a new "pretty" box that might captivate the heart of a user but I think the real motivation is more weighted towards DME economics. Phillips needs to better compete in the DME channel. With the introduction of the A10 with its cell reporting the cost to prove compliance (with insurance coverage) for DMEs had dropped compared to Philips. Resmed had been shooting ahead in blower sales because of this. Now I assume Philips has not only the connection but also the backend reporting platform thats more automated. While this channel setup is only North America it is the largest single market for any vendor.
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In many ways you are correct - the primary concern is sales, whether to DMEs or the public (via medical channels, of course) so their first concern is to make it attractive to the DMEs and by extension the public. Most every new innovation in the Dreamstation could have been accomplished in the existing physical design of the PRS, but it wouldn't look all new and shiny, would it? Product renewal is often a case of prettying up the exterior with a few interior fixes, and, considering that this is now a mature technology, it is the bells and whistles, little bits here and there that are improvements over time in the product line, so new packaging is brought in to emphasise it. This is as true in the medical field as in any - a year back a rep came to my office touting a new version of an ultrasound that I already had. The case was no longer white but slate grey, a different screen was in place, and the handles on the probes were a bit different - under the hood it was pretty much the same device, since ultrasound technology has not made any great leaps forward in a while now, but with a wireless adapter to communicate directly with the hospital's computer system. When I asked what was the difference he went on at length about the wireless mode, and the nice new design. When I pointed out that it was essentially the same machine I had sitting in the corner, he switched tactics and offered to sell me an add-on wireless adapter for the existing machine. "Would it then not be the same as the new machine?" "Oh, no," he replied, "this one is grey and has longer handles on the probes."
"Any improvements in sensitivity or display capabilities?"
"Er, no."
"Less energy?"
"Er, no."
"So, wireless and longer handles, then?"
"And it's grey, very attractive."

You get the picture?

Oh, and welcome to my day. This is what we white coat types have to put up with all the time.
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Hmmm... and I always thought CE stood for "consumer electronics" which I thought was appropriate in this case. I am not familiar with the other terminology.
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(10-12-2015, 08:14 AM)novatom Wrote: Hmmm... and I always thought CE stood for "consumer electronics" which I thought was appropriate in this case. I am not familiar with the other terminology.

Never ever heard of CE meaning Consumer Electronics, although it makes sense, but must be some sort of American abbreviation, and one I have yet to encounter in any literature that I get from the US - CE, as the mark of conformity to consumer safety, on the other hand, at least in Europe, always is on every device here that needs to pass these standards, we see the mark all the time.

I might point out that a CPAP device is not a consumer electronics device - it is a licensed medical device, which falls into a different category - your smart phone is a consumer device.
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Hey there, I'm new to the board. I came here, specifically, because I received a Philips SleepStation yesterday and I was looking for information about it.

I've been a cpap user for 7 years. My old machine is a ResMed S8 Autoset II, and my pressure is 19, and I have always used a full-face ResMed Quattro mask. I was happy with it until my machine started failing...the start/stop button does not function correctly and I have monkey around with it for the unit to turn on and off.

Yesterday I finally got a new cpap machine! I was pretty excited. My medical provider showed me the Philips DreamStation, we went over it...it seemed like a light year away from my old unit. I picked out a ResMed AirFit F10 full face mask to try out, and a new Quattro mask, to see which I like better.

I set up the DreamStation....and whoa. I don't know if I got a bad unit or what, but it is making a LOT of noise. With the humidifier on and water in the tank, it hoots and whistles from the back of the unit with LOTS of air rushing noise. Now, I know I'm at 19, I know it's a lot of pressure...but my machine sounds like something is wrong. I turned it off and checked it to see if there was packing tape or something wasn't sealing...and it all looks good to go. So then I took the humidifier off and connected the hose to see if it was quieter without the humidifier...no hooting or as much rushing, but the machine sounds like a dying vacuum cleaner. No good. I laid there for a good half hour seeing if I could get used to it for the night...when I realized it even woke up my partner. Bad news.

I looked at the filter and monkeyed with it...I cannot get it to stop making so much noise. I even shot video of it... Nothing I can do to get it to make less noise. It's crazy.

Here is the video without the humidifier...
youtu.be/2er1xfXbfh4 (add https:// to the beginning of that link to go to it, you can't post clickable links in this forum apparently)

And here is the video with the humidifier.

Sorry about my video skills, I was fumbling around at 1am with it and super irritated. I finally gave up and just hooked up my old unit and was asleep in a few minutes. Ugh. The S8 is positively silent compared to the SleepStation.

I'm going to take the DreamStation back to my provider tomorrow and see what they have to say.

I'm happy to report that I successfully slept with the ResMed AirFit F10 mask all night, though. It's lighter and sits very differently on my face than the Quattro, but it handled the pressure well and sealed up great considering I have a full beard.

Sorry if this is rambling. I just...I'm frustrated.

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