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[News] RECALL THREAD-- IMPORTANT PHILIPS DREAMSTATION & SYSTEM ONE USERS
The Philips Recall for Australians
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You're in Australia, which I thought I read allows you, under the Consumer Protection Act (or something like that), to get a refund from Philips for the amounts previously paid for your now "defective" past DreamStation purchase.  If that's the case, that's such an ideal scenario.  Purchase an equivalent system from another manufacturer, knowing that you'll have the returned funds from your prior DreamStation purchase as a credit.  If there's a snafu in my logic, and you can't recover much of your DreamStation purchase price, then you're in much the same boat as the rest of us.  

In going through this lengthy thread, you'll see that many of us did indeed purchase another PAP system (non-Philips, mostly ResMed AirSense 10s) - though some have already received their DS2 replacement to a DreamStation (with most not seemingly very happy with it, or even using it; preferring their DS1).  On top of that, there's the unreadable (by OSCAR, or SleepyHead) encrypted data in the DS2s.

Lastly, regarding going back to an older RemStar Pro, there was the report that the Philips defective foam issues indeed go back earlier than 2007.  In fact, it's been estimated that up to 10 million Philips ventilator products are affected.  So, thinking that an older Philips PAP system is "safe" because it's not on the official Philips Recall list, isn't entirely correct.

To make matters worse, which you likely already know if you've been going through the more recent posts in this thread, the foam in Philips' new DS2 systems may be a problem too.

For me, and many others, functioning during the day, without a sufficient sleep period with a PAP device, isn't possible.  If I sleep without it for just an hour or two, I'll pay a significant price the following day.  I never knew how good things were, even when they seemed they weren't - until things got worse.
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RE: RECALL THREAD-- IMPORTANT PHILIPS DREAMSTATION & SYSTEM ONE USERS
(11-19-2021, 06:08 PM)Rustyone Wrote: While I have not used the Dreamstation 2 auto yet, I am curious, is this a straight out replacement or a temporary machine while my original Dreamstation is being serviced?

Replacement. You won't ever see DS1 again. It may be rebuilt and sent to someone else, but it won't come back to you.
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RE: PHILIPS DETERMINING ACTIVE VS. INACTIVE USERS IN RECALL
(11-19-2021, 02:47 PM)btreger Wrote: "Philips is only replacing devices still in use within their lifetime, which is about five years in the US."

If Philips doesn't change that time frame and continues to delay shipments of new products that could mean that thousands of people that desperately need a replacement will no longer qualify for one. 

I use a small-town DME (one of the 4 employees was a fellow Girl Scout leader). One of the things that my friend told me is that there are several insurance companies which will not pay for replacement CPAPs unless the DME certifies that they are not repairable. No matter how old it is, or even sometimes the repairs are more expensive than a new machine! She said that one silver lining for these patients has been that they finally have new machines. (Or almost-new -- they have used up their stock of machines which had been returned with low hours.)

But this HAS pointed out that there is a disconnect between what the manufacturers are saying about their machines' lifetimes and what some insurance companies are claiming. And it is NOT reasonable to expect that a machine like this should last for decades. When all this settles down, maybe the FDA will have some reasonable tests for declaring that a machine is old enough and worn out enough that it is no longer an approved medical device.

(My daughter drives her grandmother's 1996 Saturn. It's a really good little car, but major parts have had to be replaced and rebuilt. A couple of years ago we replaced the engine mount because it had crumbled and just disappeared.)
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RE: RECALL THREAD-- IMPORTANT PHILIPS DREAMSTATION & SYSTEM ONE USERS
"Pulled that from https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UmGy7_khBF0 [Video Title: "The Philips Recall Just Doubled! 10,000,000 Machines Affected"] when "CPAP Reviews" discussed the Philips CEO interview with the Financial Times.  Video information and link posted previously by [i]btreger [thanks for that]."[/i]

Thank you WakeUpCall for the sources. You're right, registration won't necessarily lead to a repair or replacement. Not in the absence of regulatory intervention, which seems unlikely for users in the USA.

This is a great tragedy for anyone who can't afford the cost of a suitable and safe replacement.

I read Motley Fool's transcript of the Q3 2021 earnings call between Philips executives and several stock analysts. Regarding discussions about the recall, the focus clearly is on minimizing the cost and regaining the support of DMEs and doctors.

https://www.nasdaq.com/articles/royal-ph...-10-18?amp
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RE: RECALL THREAD-- IMPORTANT PHILIPS DREAMSTATION & SYSTEM ONE USERS
(11-22-2021, 09:17 AM)SingingSam Wrote: Regarding discussions about the recall, the focus clearly is on minimizing the cost and regaining the support of DMEs and doctors.

Business 101, minimize cost and make make your customers happy. And for CPAP the doctors/DMEs are the customers (at least in the US).

Patients aren't the customers, they don't market the machines to us, they don't give us details,s to decide between machines,  they don't tell us how to adjust the machines (northern ability), and if there was any doubt, now they won't even give us access to the data collected by the machine.
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RE: RECALL THREAD-- IMPORTANT PHILIPS DREAMSTATION & SYSTEM ONE USERS
Any one signing that release note is giving Philips a get out of jail free key. It is asking for a complete release from any redress if you have or do in the future suffer any ill efects or even death from using their product. IT MUST NOT BE SIGNED. It just shows how sh*t ridden and underhanded Philips are.
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PHILIPS RECALL FOCUS GROUP
This may already exist in other site forums.  I thought it may be beneficial to start a separate thread on actions that impacted Philips Recall device users could take as a collective group.  Philips is well prepared to ignore the requests from individual users, however if that same request were to be repeated by 30, 50 or 100 recalled device owners, that might carry a little more weight.  The same may hold true for letters sent to medical and consumer protection agencies, government offices, law firms, sleep associations, insurance companies, etc., regarding Philips' specific actions and policies related to the Recall.

Template e-mail letters could be constructed by one person, with the individual group members repeating the same e-mails - only of course if they fully support the letter.  If the document were already prepared, along with e-mail (or telephone) contact details to make it very easy, we might be able to tilt the direction of some of Philips' policies.  The collective group, if not all Philips Recall device users, would therefore benefit by the efforts of one individual, saving a substantial amount of time and potentially generating some greater results.  

It's important to note that this proposed new thread would only be for responding to Philips, and not to detract from the discussions in the main Philips Recall thread, or related Recall threads (foam replacement, DS2 encryption, etc.).

PHILIPS RECALL FOCUS GROUP
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RE: PHILIPS RECALL FOCUS GROUP
(11-22-2021, 12:56 PM)WakeUpTime Wrote: Template e-mail letters could be constructed by one person, with the individual group members repeating the same e-mails - only of course if they fully support the letter.  If the document were already prepared, along with e-mail (or telephone) contact details to make it very easy, we might be able to tilt the direction of some of Philips' policies.  The collective group, if not all Philips Recall device users, would therefore benefit by the efforts of one individual, saving a substantial amount of time and potentially generating some greater results.  

It sounds like you are volunteering. Great idea, since I already have sent out numerous e-mails myself. I could supply some e-mail addresses if you supply the template. What do you think?
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RE: PHILIPS RECALL FOCUS GROUP
(11-22-2021, 01:57 PM)btreger Wrote: I could supply some e-mail addresses if you supply the template. What do you think?

You've done a solo effort over the past many months with sending many e-mails to the pertinent parties involved in the Recall.  Many may have likely already benefited from your efforts by getting more insight into the Recall or by motivating the relevant parties to give better results to Recall device owners.

Before posting your templates and addresses, it would be interesting to see how many others like the idea, as I wouldn't wish you to go through those extra efforts if there weren't a critical mass of others who wished to participate.  The concept could allow many people to quickly and easily motivate Philips (and others) to obtaining better results.  If we can get the support of others, it could be successful.  Otherwise, it may be a thread that's just DOA.

Some ideas for future template letters could be...
  • Response to the Philips CEO FT interview comments where he stated that perceived inactive Recalled device owners may not get a replacement/fix
  • Philips' slow response to System One, DS GO, etc., device owners
  • Philips' slow response in dealing with BiPAP, ASV, etc., owners
  • DS2 being an insufficient replacement, preferring an original DS1 fix
  • DS2 encryption, preventing owners from getting the same setup that they had previously (OSCAR readings)
  • etc.
Perhaps the vast majority of people have either "moved-on" with their replacement non-Philips system, or feel that they'll just wait out the Recall for however long it takes, to see if they eventually get a fix/replacement.
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RE: RECALL THREAD-- IMPORTANT PHILIPS DREAMSTATION & SYSTEM ONE USERS
(11-22-2021, 09:38 AM)ST Dog Wrote: Business 101, minimize cost and make make your customers happy. And for CPAP the doctors/DMEs are the customers (at least in the US).

Patients aren't the customers, they don't market the machines to us, they don't give us details,s to decide between machines,  they don't tell us how to adjust the machines (northern ability), and if there was any doubt, now they won't even give us access to the data collected by the machine.

We patients aren't the customers of the manufacturers, but we ARE the customers of the doctors/DMEs/clinics/hospitals/sleepLabs/etc.

And those various professionals have no motivation to make big sacrifices so that Philips can make money.

Every medical appointment in the US is followed up by a survey. Fill out the survey, write this stuff down, make it clear that you are unhappy with YOUR providers if those providers aren't sufficiently unhappy with the manufacturers.

If your primary has referred you to a sleep specialist, and the specialist thinks that the manufacturers' behavior is wonderful, ask for another referral to a different specialist, and explain why.

The doctors and nurses that I deal with are quite conscious that they are asking their patients to trust them, and take that responsibility very seriously.

Philips designed and manufactured a machine that they claimed used materials that were not dangerous to the patients using the machine. Philips then actively hid facts about the safety of one of those materials.


Philips has designed and manufactured a machine that they claim treats sleep apnea. Philips is actively hiding from the patient the facts about the efficacy of that machine in treating the patient's sleep apnea.

So are they lying about that, too?

Philips is supposedly giving your dme and doctor the data which would allow the dme and doctor to determine whether the Philips machine really treats your apnea. If it turns out that the DS2 is a scam, then the dmes and doctors who colluded in Philips' fraud have just taken on a huge liability. Even if everything is on the up-and-up, if you make an absolute pest of yourself EVERY DAY asking for your data from the night before, and EVERY DAY some staff person has to respond to your requests, that's a whole lot of hassle that Philips sure isn't paying them for!

If I were a doctor or a dme I would be running away from Philips as fast as I could.

If you are a patient of that doctor or dme, then you have the opportunity to explain to your doc/dme why you are running away from Philips, and that the doc/dme is choosing between Philips and the patients.

If you step back and think about it, the expectation that you will go to sleep while at the mercy of a machine built by an organization proven untrustworthy building machines in the past -- it is pretty mind-boggling!
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