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[News] RECALL THREAD-- IMPORTANT PHILIPS DREAMSTATION & SYSTEM ONE USERS
RE: RECALL THREAD-- IMPORTANT PHILIPS DREAMSTATION & SYSTEM ONE USERS
(06-26-2021, 05:50 PM)qwerty42 Wrote: For example:
[Image: 8CBMeWg.png]


SERIOUSLY WTF!?!?!?!

That's in the air chamber that we've been breathing...for years?  How can Philips not have known these materials in their machines were breaking down like this for so long?  Why would these companies take the risk of placing this poison in the air chamber

Why would the ozone machine companies think it is a good idea to oxidize these machines?  I've never opened up a cpap machine myself, but for the SoClean's  of the the world you would think they had and as a result would have a clue as to what effects their oxidizers would have on CPAP machines before they marketed their scammy products by preying on the fear of others.
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RE: RECALL THREAD-- IMPORTANT PHILIPS DREAMSTATION & SYSTEM ONE USERS
(06-26-2021, 02:22 PM)btreger Wrote: …Knowing the potential medical harm this foam could cause they would only use it for one product cycle, about 5 years.

Without commenting on the rest of your points, this foam has been in use for at lease 2 product cycles: System One and DreamStation 1. Only the older M Series are unaffected.

I’m actually a little surprised they’re keeping the DreamStation name. But I guess they’re keeping Philips and Respironics, so DreamStation won’t carry much more baggage, and they’ve invested a lot into that branding.
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RE: RECALL THREAD-- IMPORTANT PHILIPS DREAMSTATION & SYSTEM ONE USERS
(06-25-2021, 05:13 PM)cathyf Wrote: Hey don't just think about the weather -- most of us run these machines with humidifiers which use heat to increase the humidity.

The humidifiers are downstream of the foam. That’s why they say heated humidification doesn’t matter, but a hot and humid room does.
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RE: RECALL THREAD-- IMPORTANT PHILIPS DREAMSTATION & SYSTEM ONE USERS
(06-26-2021, 09:03 PM)sawinglogz Wrote: The humidifiers are downstream of the foam. That’s why they say heated humidification doesn’t matter, but a hot and humid room does.

Yeah, but the humidifier runs via heat, and heat dissipates. That's why you have to worry about what you put in the cupboard over your stove, not just what you put in the oven.

Entropy always wins -- ironclad law of the universe.
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RE: RECALL THREAD-- IMPORTANT PHILIPS DREAMSTATION & SYSTEM ONE USERS
(06-26-2021, 07:15 PM)qwerty42 Wrote: I very much agree. Also, I just want to emphasize one thing: if you read carefully and closely in the Philips provider-focused doc I linked a few posts back, it breaks down the risks into two separate categories:
  • Foam degradation risks (particles and specific gasses resulting from that)
  • Toxic and/or carcinogenic VOC offgassing
The second part -- the toxic & carcinogenic VOCs -- are independent of the foam breakdown. The document says: "During initial or subsequent operation of the device, a patient may be exposed to VOCs..." That means no matter how old your machine, risk #2, and maybe the most serious, exists.

I don't want to scare anyone, but people should be taking this seriously. Philips themselves stated that people should discontinue using any of these devices unless it's a life-critical ventilator (source):
"For patients using BiLevel PAP and CPAP devices: 
  •  Discontinue use of your device and work with your physician or Durable Medical Equipment (DME) provider to determine the most appropriate options for continued treatment. "

I don't discount the importance of this.  But before I would jump to another brand, I'd want to be assured that the other brand doesn't also have VOCs (because I'd bet they all do).  

I live in a mild & arid climate. And I don't use SoClean.  I do avoid VOCs in my life.
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RE: RECALL THREAD-- IMPORTANT PHILIPS DREAMSTATION & SYSTEM ONE USERS
(06-26-2021, 12:28 PM)SarcasticDave94 Wrote: That would likely be a too coincidental happening for me to buy.

For all of you that say do not buy a Phillips machine I ASK what car/or truck or SUV do you drive??

Now look up the makers history.

EVERY make has a point in modern history of making a car that has killed people, OUT right killed them.

Ford is famous for Ford Gate where it was proven they choose to pay off law suits that fix the car...it was cheaper.

ALL of them have made BIG mistakes like those deadly air bags...

And fast food: Jack in the Box is still selling hamburgers even after a fair number of people die from tainted meat.

IF we stopped buying from every company that has made a mistake there would be no one to provide us with any thing.

My reasonable thought for today.

Rich
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RE: RECALL THREAD-- IMPORTANT PHILIPS DREAMSTATION & SYSTEM ONE USERS
I see a huge difference between the product recall that has been thrust upon Phillips, versus other products. The only similarity that I can see is with the pharmaceutical business, recently a blood pressure medicine was deemed carcinogenic and should be stopped if using.

However with a product that the public uses, like a car or a toy, where a part could fail , it’s a possibility. With Phillips they are saying that EACH AND EVERY. MACHINE can cause cancer. I retired from the car biz and I don’t know of any car that the public has been told to stop using, some new cars on the lot are issued with a “stop sale” until fixed but never the public to immediately stop driving.
Glen in Ft Lauderdale

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RE: RECALL THREAD-- IMPORTANT PHILIPS DREAMSTATION & SYSTEM ONE USERS
Thanks cathyf for your answer to me.

(memory....my first machine was a Respiironics brick. My sleep doc from h*ll had me use it for 8-1/2 years. His reasoning? If it aint broke don't fix it. Then I bought another Respironics machine.)

Point is---this son of a gun had me use a machine longer than it's design life time. I won't do that again.
DaveL
compliant for 35 years /// Still learning!

ResMed N20; ResMed P30i modified headgear; F&P Evora Full FFM



I'm just a cpap user like you. I don't give medical advice. Seek the advice of a physician before seeking treatment for medical conditions including sleep apnea. Sleep-well

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RE: RECALL THREAD-- IMPORTANT PHILIPS DREAMSTATION & SYSTEM ONE USERS
For those doubting ozone is damaging, we literally have had TWO chemists, plus my own mother who was an industrial chemist until she retired, and an engineer explaining this.

There is no doubt that ozone speeds up the deterioration of products, and that also includes this foam. Is it the ONLY cause? No. But is it a factor that would probably worsen and speed up the deterioration problem? Absolutely.

Why are people so concerned about breathing in these (legitimately dangerous) chemicals but not ozone - when it's definitively shown to cause a boatload of respiratory issues - and even when it's apparently been left long enough to "degas", there can STILL be enough ozone left caught in the air pathway to end up being inhaled - especially as it's not necessary, and it doesn't make it cleaner because you have to wash the items FIRST to remove secretions, oil etc in order for it to even work as an antimicrobial agent. I know this. I'm a medical microbiologist. Yes, ozone can be used to sterilise things. But it also degrades them and is forbidden on many things. Additionally, it doesn't effectively work on things with biological fluids etc. So if you're not properly washing your equipment in warm water and mild soap, then it's not going to work properly anyway, and if you do, it's not saving you any time or give you any extra benefit. This isn't something that "they" want to tell you - this is just basic chemistry. Just because many of these companies like to make it sound safer by calling it activated oxygen doesn't mean that it IS oxygen. It's not. That's just not how it works.
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RE: RECALL THREAD-- IMPORTANT PHILIPS DREAMSTATION & SYSTEM ONE USERS
FWIW I'm choosing not to buy Respironics not because of foam gate, but because of how Respironics doesn't work with my breathing like I'm used to with ResMed. That's all I'm basing my choice on. ResMed has a breath pattern I like better.
Dave

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INFORMATION ON APNEA BOARD FORUMS OR ON APNEABOARD.COM SHOULD NOT BE CONSIDERED MEDICAL ADVICE. ALWAYS SEEK THE ADVICE OF A PHYSICIAN BEFORE SEEKING TREATMENT FOR MEDICAL CONDITIONS, INCLUDING SLEEP APNEA. INFORMATION POSTED ON THE APNEA BOARD WEBSITE AND FORUMS ARE PERSONAL OPINION ONLY AND NOT NECESSARILY A STATEMENT OF FACT.
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