[News] RECALL THREAD-- IMPORTANT PHILIPS DREAMSTATION & SYSTEM ONE USERS

[videomagician]

Well, I was fortunate to receive a used Dreamstation (without a humidifier) from a friend so I don't have to hack up mine.

I've spent the last couple of hours cleaning it out with Dawn, Palmolive Anti-bacterial dishwashing soap, and finally with Control III Disinfectant.  The vanes on the motor blower fan were the hardest to clean with alcohol and Kim wipes. Friend was a smoker, so vanes started out with brown residue but ended up residue free.

I drilled two holes to remove the foam - starting small and going larger until I could reach it.  I ended up with two 1/2" holes and used hemostats to pull the foam out.

Here is a photo of where I drilled the holes:  https://photos.app.goo.gl/aZsYxEwrPyG7JpJFA

I'll probably use some medical tape I have to try and seal the holes.

I had to use a bent pick through the hole at one point to pull out a piece of foam that had broken.  This unit was from 2017 with about 7K hours on it, and the foam seemed to be beginning to break down and crumble a bit.

The ironic thing is she also gave me her SoClean and another smaller ozone cleaner she used all the time.

After everything dries out I'll put it back together and let it run for several hours before I try to use it.

[racprops]

Not bad BUT if you had read the whole thread you would have seen how I suggest you do it: If you would like to see go to page 10 post 93 and there is more.

I have to point your there are I am at my limit for posting pictures.

Rich

Also:

I have been ask about how to do these modifications:

You should NOT do this!! But here are the details for FYI only.

Here is a video on the Dreamstation systems.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TPX-SDSUW7E

At around 8 minutes you can see the problem, the fan housing with its SEALED in Black foam.

Here you totally will void any warnetee:

The ONLY way to remove the foam is to CUT into the shell and then to pull it out.

I being a model maker did this with a Dremal power tool.

This can be dangerous. IF you not a normal dremal user please do not do this.

I cut a "U" Shaped cut,about 3/4s of an inch wide and about 1 inch long following the foam behind the wall.

I did the on the side wall.

Then I bent the flap open and plucked the foam out using a pair of Hemostats.

I then bent the flap back into place leaving a very thin cut slot and resealed it with duct tape.

I then put it all back together.

WARNING: I cannot say how well these machines respond to this surgery.

So far I have done this to two Dreamstations. A BiPap machine and a ASV.

The BiPap seems to work, but I only sleep for under 4 hours with it.

I seemed to have a event under it and got a AHI of 5.23 that lasted for about 0:16;07 and the at this point the AHI was reported at 44.67 this did not seem good.

The rest of my sleep of 3:26:28 was other wise great or of 2:37:52 had a AHI rating of 1.14.

So either I had a problem that needed a ASV machine or the BiPap may not be working correctly.

All other reports by OSCAR of the night seemed normal.

I feel very lucky as at this point I have a possible good Bipap, and a good System One ASV 960, and I have ordered a Resmed Aircurve 10 ASV, so knowing I only need survive until it gets here, I took apart the Dreamstation ASV and did the same surgery on its motor housing.

Now here again I am concerned with its performance:

It took a couple of restarts to seem to settle down. Air flow seems slightly stronger. Other wise after this startup and running everything seems normal.

With my normal 4 to 5 hours of sleep (I sleep in such cycles normally) I just woke up, hit the bathroom, and refilled the water tank of the humidifier and read the SD Card in OSCAR:

SO in 4:43:15 I just got a reading of 0.0!! ALL reading are 0.0 BUT for Vibratory Snore (VS2) which shows 5.08.

Seems almost too good to be true, BUT my readings before the surgery HAS been very good, on the 13th I read a 0.25 out of 8:05:01 sleep of Hypopnea ONLY and on the 12th. I got a reading of 0.12 out of 8:08:47 of Hypopnea ONLY so both the slight improvement in air flow COULD cause this slight improvement of my readings and how tired I am last night could explain these great reading.

OR the machine is not able to read correctly..I do not know.

Again all of the other readings seem normal. I have readings of Vibratory Snore and Vibratory Snore (VS2) all the time so that is normal for me.

I need help on how to post pictures to show you these readings and other information.

This was drastic action.

I cannot suggest anyone do this.

Like Phillips, I say do this at your own risk.

This might make your machine malfunction.

All most surely Phillips will not cover your machine if you do this to any Dreamstation.

I am going back to bed and will report my morning readings when I get up.

One good thing about opening your machines will be you can check the fan and ITS air out let for any black powder and see IF your machine is having any problem with the foam at this point.

Sadly there is no test of any out gassing from the foam.

ALL things out gas: IF you can smell it, be it wood, or plastic any smell IS out gassing.

Good luck everyone.

Your in my prayers tonight.

Rich

[sawinglogz]

From an engineering perspective, the least costly way to produce these machines is to have identical hardware. If there is some piece of the hardware that the ASV needs that the CPAP doesn't, but that piece of hardware costs four cents, then it would be insane to spend $20 million retooling your assembly line to leave out a 4-cent part. The hackers proving that the ASV software would run on a CPAP is strong evidence that if there is anything hardware-wise that the ASV needs special, then it is cheap enough that it doesn't make sense to leave it out on the non-ASV machines.

Agreed, but this has not historically been the case for Philips. I believe they used different blowers for a long time, presumably with significantly higher ratings for variable pressure. Those might well be expensive enough per unit that they restrict them to their $2000+ devices.

[S.Thompson]

So. Found this interesting.

I called my doc the day the news broke.
Told them I'd been using the DS already for 3 years so figure whatever it was doing had already affected me and that going without was gonna be worse. Therefore I wanted to let them know I was aware but had chosen to continue use.

Was "Oh my'ed!" And advised they could not recommend that which I acknowledged. End of call.

Several hours later got called back and was ordered to stop use period. So I complied reluctantly.

Yesterday, when I called for a copy of my script to see about self purchasing another to use due to effects of going without, I was now told it was okay to restart use with some adjustments. 1) Turn off heat plate so only receive passive cold humidity now and 2) Stop using any cleaners other than soap & water. 

I asked if they weren't concerned about the VOC's off gassing from the foam and was told no. Additionally I was told that the recall was 'voluntary' with the implication being that that made it not a dangerous or serious issue.

SMH. So cold humidity makes it all better people! And it wasn't really scary after all. Happy days are here again!

[S.Thompson]

Idea...how about Philips take 3-4 million of those plastic boxes they have manufactured for them and adjust the order so NO FOAM is included in them, ship those empty boxes to the DME's and pay them to switch them out? It would just be one step more than they already have to do to replace a blower, would not be noticeably louder, would probably be a relatively inexpensive fix and much quicker.

[cathyf]

Can anyone show me where these hackers are I need an ASV, I have a BiPap ResMed 10 so other than replacing the Mainboard I am stuck.

FTI I have compared the Dreamstation's BiPAP and ASV Main Boards and there are a few more parts on the ASV board than the BiPAP board.

The hack was more of a proof of concept than a way to end up with a DIY ASV. The point is that if the hardware is the same it would be trivial for the manufacturer who has the gold master software for each incarnation to install needed software on the “wrong” hardware. And then put on a sticker or write on it with sharpie or nail polish or paint or whatever so that you could tell from the outside what was inside. (And inside the research engineering labs, I’m sure that happens all the time.)

So we are not talking Windows vs DOS, but more like Windows Home (Autoset) vs Windows Pro (bi-pap) vs Windows Server (ASV).

In other words, a marketing decision. Which means it’s a decision that could be changed in a very short time. And a decision that could be easily influenced by political pressure and regulatory action. 

But back to the crisis at hand… if I am understanding this correctly, at least ResMed has the technical capability to turn every later-version Airsense 10 into a bipap or ASV if it’s needed for PR patients to have a machine. We grumble here about the DMEs being the true customers not us, but that’s not necessarily a bad thing. 

I was at my DME meeting with the RT on Monday. (Small chain, 2 or 3 stores I think). She told me she hates Respironics and only dispenses those machines if the doctor insists. She said specifically because Resmed “listens to their patients and listens to us”. They’ve only got 46 PR machines dispensed out of her store, other stores about 80 apiece. You think the respiratory therapists are going to be happy to be tracking down all of their patients with recalled machines? 

If the DMEs were to see Resmed busting their butts to get Resmed machines for PR patients, that would pretty much seal PR’s fate.

[videomagician]

Not bad BUT if you had read the whole thread you would have seen how I suggest you do it

I have read the entire thread and also saw the way you did yours. I just tried something different the way I wanted to do it with less cutting. Thanks for the tips though!

[qwerty42]

If you're going to remove the foam, cut as I've shown here. If you do, the motor cover re-seals the cutout area, and so the pathway from intake filter to fan will still be fully sealed. There is no need to cover the holes back up.

If you don't do it this way, the holes cut on top will suck in dust and whatever else makes its way into the machine, because you've created new inlets that bypass the original filter. If you cover them back up with tape, which has adhesives that outgas god knows what and will eventually start to leak -- that's a questionable improvement.

[videomagician]

If you're going to remove the foam, cut as I've shown here

Thanks for the tip! I was worried about the adhesive getting in the airstream, but I think I've got a solution to that now.

[racprops]

I STRONGLY disagree.

You're bypassing the flow and pressure sensors on the underside of the mainboard, this will allow air into the fans chamber uncontrolled and without working the pressure sensors. They made this roundabout way for the air to go from the filters to the fan for many reasons, reasons we cannot fully understand.

This will most likely disable the sensors feedback system rendering the control system inoperable.  This could make the air pressure system run wild or who knows what.

My system allows the removable of the foam and the RESEALING of the chamber back to how it was made. My system returns the chamber to its original configuration just minus the foam.

Yours and the three on utube all do the same thing, leave holes in the chamber.  

These chamber like the humidifier, hose and mask need an airtight seal for the system to work.

The chamber NEEDS to be airtight so that the pressure changes through out the whole system can be READ by ALL OF THE SENSORS.

Look at this:


[attachment=33337]