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[News] RECALL THREAD-- IMPORTANT PHILIPS DREAMSTATION & SYSTEM ONE USERS
RE: RECALL THREAD-- IMPORTANT PHILIPS DREAMSTATION & SYSTEM ONE USERS
(07-02-2021, 02:45 PM)btreger Wrote: The SoClean product came to the marketplace in February 2012. That gave CPAP manufacturers 9 years to upgrade their equipment to make them ozone tolerant if they really cared about us users. They had many options available but chose to do nothing. Only now are they raising concerns that the ozone could potentially cause damage to their machines.

Cleaning as a whole category of action has inherent problems. The purpose of cleaning is to remove/damage/kill the things that you don't want there, and it's very common that you have to be careful not to remove/damage/kill the thing that you are trying to get clean. Bleach is great on stains on white fabric, but it takes the dye out of colored fabrics and it eats away whites over time -- so you should only use bleach on whites and only when there's a stain. And there are some housewives who are obsessive-compulsive and they get hole-y underwear and take much more frequent trips to the store to replace the clothes that they've worn out prematurely with washing everything too hard too often.

Ozone is a lot like bleach -- the chemical processes that they use to clean are actually closely related. Using ozone on mask or hose is like using bleach constantly on whites that are already clean. Using ozone on the inside of the cpap machine is like pouring bleach on your favorite red t-shirt which wasn't even dirty and then complaining that the shirt manufacturer didn't make a bleach-resistant shirt!
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RE: RECALL THREAD-- IMPORTANT PHILIPS DREAMSTATION & SYSTEM ONE USERS
(07-01-2021, 11:20 PM)qwerty42 Wrote: Eek, sorry everyone! Oh-jeez Thanks for the heads-up. I haven't disassembled one of these myself and didn't realize there were pressure ports in those locations. The pair of side-by-side ports are almost surely where flow rate is measured with a differential pressure sensor and flow restrictor built into the chamber.

The hose/mask pressure sensor is on the opposite side of the blower from the cutouts (outlet vs. intake), so administered therapy pressure would not be affected by any cutouts, BUT the machine's calculation of mass flow rate and however it's used in its algorithms could be affected.

It doesn't look like I can edit my post anymore (does the board have a time limit for that?), so unfortunately I can't change it. But I do agree: regardless of where you cut to remove the foam, it needs to get sealed back shut for all the flow sensors to work reliably.

(Side note -- looking at this now, is one of the differential pressure port taps embedded into the foam? If so, and if it's being used as a static pressure measurement, then even just removing the foam would affect its operation. Regarding why I can be trusted too, I have a bachelor's degree in mechanical engineering and a master's degree in aerospace engineering, where complex air and fluid flow is the majority of study -- so I'm not ignorant to the physics behind it, I'm just ignorant to the machine since I haven't personally taken one apart yet! Smile )

I have a second old apap ds1 that I tried this on, and one of the flow sensors goes through a hole in the foam and the opening is flush with the bottom of the foam.  I cut using my dremel on the outside of each piece of the installed foam.  I sealed the cuts with hot glue then let washed it out and let it dry for 8 hours.  When I slept with it I did not sleep well, and I believe that the foam needs to be in the chamber to allow properly metered airflow as the space was not designed to be empty.
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RE: RECALL THREAD-- IMPORTANT PHILIPS DREAMSTATION & SYSTEM ONE USERS
(07-02-2021, 03:21 PM)cathyf Wrote: Cleaning as a whole category of action has inherent problems. The purpose of cleaning is to remove/damage/kill the things that you don't want there, and it's very common that you have to be careful not to remove/damage/kill the thing that you are trying to get clean. Bleach is great on stains on white fabric, but it takes the dye out of colored fabrics and it eats away whites over time -- so you should only use bleach on whites and only when there's a stain. And there are some housewives who are obsessive-compulsive and they get hole-y underwear and take much more frequent trips to the store to replace the clothes that they've worn out prematurely with washing everything too hard too often.

Ozone is a lot like bleach -- the chemical processes that they use to clean are actually closely related. Using ozone on mask or hose is like using bleach constantly on whites that are already clean. Using ozone on the inside of the cpap machine is like pouring bleach on your favorite red t-shirt which wasn't even dirty and then complaining that the shirt manufacturer didn't make a bleach-resistant shirt!

Four years ago at my DME when I first received my machine they had stacks of the so-clean devices in their main office, I was put off by the cost of them and I was on another forum where people said not to use them as the ozone was harmful to the machines/masks/tubes, so I never bought into the snakeoil bs.

I like your simile. Smile
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RE: RECALL THREAD-- IMPORTANT PHILIPS DREAMSTATION & SYSTEM ONE USERS
If you're using a SoClean or any other type of ozone generator to clean, there's more to be concerned with than your CPAP degrading. Ozone is basically potentially harmful to your health  when inhaled. Why would someone intentionally expose themselves to something as harmful as ozone? The SoClean manual has ozone warnings, but how can you be assured the levels in a room where a SoClean is used are safe or not and every individual may have differing thresholds of possible irritation and/or injury.
When my wife and I chose an indoor air cleaner we were careful to chose one that did not use ozone.
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RE: RECALL THREAD-- IMPORTANT PHILIPS DREAMSTATION & SYSTEM ONE USERS
Another Class Action Developing...


Quote:
Berger Montague Files
Class Action Lawsuit
Against Philips on Behalf of Consumers
Who Purchased Philips' Recalled CPAP, BiPAP, and other Sleep Apnea Machines and Ventilators


PHILADELPHIA, June 30, 2021 /PRNewswire/ -- The national plaintiffs' law firm Berger Montague has filed a class action lawsuit against Dutch medical equipment company Philips to protect consumers harmed by Philips' recalled sleep apnea machines, including CPAP and BiPAP machines, and ventilators, which may increase users' risk of cancer and pulmonary fibrosis, and cause other injuries such as headaches, irritation, inflammation, respiratory issues, and exposure to materials with toxic and carcinogenic effects. The case is Shelton v. Koninklijke Philips N.V., et al., No. 1:21-cv-11076 (D. Mass.).

Case Number: 1:21-cv-11076
Court: Massachusetts

[*Web-link to details at the press release news site PRNEWSWIRE has been removed as it's deemed a "commercial link".]
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RE: RECALL THREAD-- IMPORTANT PHILIPS DREAMSTATION & SYSTEM ONE USERS
(07-02-2021, 03:34 PM)Phaleronic Wrote: I have a second old apap ds1 that I tried this on, and one of the flow sensors goes through a hole in the foam and the opening is flush with the bottom of the foam.  I cut using my dremel on the outside of each piece of the installed foam.  I sealed the cuts with hot glue then let washed it out and let it dry for 8 hours.  When I slept with it I did not sleep well, and I believe that the foam needs to be in the chamber to allow properly metered airflow as the space was not designed to be empty.

Interesting -- thanks for the extra info. Here's a diagram I made in case anyone's interested. The only sensor that would be affected by cutouts to remove the foam is the one I labeled #2 -- but it's a very important one, unfortunately. Cutouts downstream of it (meaning further along the path toward the blower intake) won't change its readings, but cutouts upstream of it (toward the inlet filter) will cause it to read erroneous values.

That particular sensor, since it's measuring flow rate, is probably being used to determine obstructions, hypopneas, clear airway apneas, and basically everything else except for the actual pressure in your hose, so it's very important that it is working correctly.

I can't tell from the pictures I've seen whether or not the foam plays a role in its measurement. There are a few different ways it could be configured to take this measurement (measuring static pressure on either side of a restrictor; or using a static pressure port and dynamic pressure port like a pitot tube; or diverting airflow directly through it if it's actually a dedicated mass airflow sensor). I'd need to take a closer look at that middle section of the foam chamber and see where the ports go and how they're shaped to know which of these it is. If I have time this weekend I'll take apart my own DreamStation and reverse engineer this definitively for you all.
[Image: HjPKztb.png]
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RE: RECALL THREAD-- IMPORTANT PHILIPS DREAMSTATION & SYSTEM ONE USERS
They have 1 tech for phone support when you have to call them, for the entire country. Prepare to be on hold for at least 1 hour if you do call.
Product support is extremely bad anyway.
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RE: RECALL THREAD-- IMPORTANT PHILIPS DREAMSTATION & SYSTEM ONE USERS
This may be a separate topic, but given the concerns about the foam in the Philips Dreamstation, does anyone know what type of foam is in the ResMed Airtouch cushion?
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RE: RECALL THREAD-- IMPORTANT PHILIPS DREAMSTATION & SYSTEM ONE USERS
Great post (#536) qwerty42.

That all makes perfectly good sense. I was a tech at a weather instrumentation company many years ago, and the dual port pressure sensor in the middle looks somewhat familiar to some of the sensors we used.

Since there is some speculation that the foam may play an important roll in these sensors measuring airflow accurately, and I agree that it likely does since there will be a Venturi effect in the center restriction area where the airflow sensor is located, has anyone tried to find a replacement? There are lots of foam insulation products and foam pads with sticky back on Amazon. I don't know what material would be safe for this use, or the thickness needed. But it would be really interesting if there was an off-the-shelf foam that would work and be safe. All we need then would be a scale template as a cutting guide.

As far as function, I think the actual material used in the foam would be less of a factor versus the shape and placement. Then of course as for safety, the material used would take precedence.
RayBee

~ Self-Treatment - via ApneaBoard experts.
~ Self-Pay - no help from Kaiser other than getting my script, then a pat on the butt and out the door.
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~ Pay no attention to the dog behind the cup, he ain't a docta, and does not give medical advise.

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RE: RECALL THREAD-- IMPORTANT PHILIPS DREAMSTATION & SYSTEM ONE USERS
(07-02-2021, 09:54 PM)WakeUpTime Wrote: Another Class Action Developing...




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Very interesting, great bit of research. We now have posted 2 Law Firms involved in Class Action Lawsuits. I think it would benefit all of us to know how many members of this thread have signed on for a lawsuit or intend to and which firm did they choose. The reason is simple, the more users who have signed up, the better chance it would potentially have in our courts, it's not meant to be personnel.
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