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[News] RECALL THREAD-- IMPORTANT PHILIPS DREAMSTATION & SYSTEM ONE USERS
RE: RECALL THREAD-- IMPORTANT PHILIPS DREAMSTATION & SYSTEM ONE USERS
QUOTED FROM ABOVE:
If ResMed runs out of current inventory at DMEs, only slowly increases production of new model devices, and Philips is low to increase inventory of DreamStation 2s, the industry as a whole may be faced with a serious international medical problem as a result of a significant shortage in replacement devices.


The only thing I would change about this statement is it’s not a matter of IF, it’s a matter of WHEN, and I think that WHEN is not weeks away but days away. Just do the math. That’s why I keep repeating here it’s time to stop all the hand ringing and discussion and go out and find the last of the machines because once they are gone from any inventory that is left out there, they’re not gonna be replaced for quite a while because it will take several months for Phillips to ramp up/correct the problem with a new part, and Resmed and others will have to increase their entire supply chain that it takes to make a product.There was a documentary recently on the birth of the new mustang design  in 2016, the entire car was held up for 3 MONTHS because a $5 part on the transmission needed to be redesigned by their supplier.

So once again there is nothing more urgent than starting to do a hard target search on everybody you can find to get a machine, because there are going to be many people who blink and are going to be out a machine for quite a while if urgent action isn’t taken  never mind when you get reimbursed,  never mind talking to doctors/DME’s/medicare and waiting for them to “get back to you” , try and go find a machine, even if it used or a refurb. You can worry about the financial outlay and who pays later.

And by the way, the above comment about CVS, the resmed units are now off their website, my local CVS says there’s not a single one available through them in the entire South Florida area, they were sold out weeks ago. If your CVS has one, grab it.
Glen in Ft Lauderdale

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RE: RECALL THREAD-- IMPORTANT PHILIPS DREAMSTATION & SYSTEM ONE USERS
Philips has already stated that they're not going to be shipping many DreamStation 2s for a while - for money, and for new customers.  They'll mostly be used as replacement devices.  ResMed's going to benefit by much more than stock analysts have initially calculated.  

It's also a tremendous opportunity for a large company to buy into the ventilator market by buying out one of the smaller players and injecting its name, designs, production, international market knowledge, and investment into it.  A company like J&J, Procter & Gamble, GE, Abbott, Siemens, whoever, could buy DeVilbiss, Fisher & Paykel, or someone else, to rocket into the industry and immediately take a significant market share and increase it even more now that Philips has faltered for awhile.

One year from now, Philips will still be able to claim a very large (perhaps 60%) market share, with all those "fixed" and upgrades, even though many/most of them won't be users' primary system (rather a backup secondary device).  However, future sales could become a lot more competitive and Philips will have a lot of brand-damage to contend with.
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RE: RECALL THREAD-- IMPORTANT PHILIPS DREAMSTATION & SYSTEM ONE USERS
Don't be so panicky about the number of recalled machines... There are a LOT of CPAP users out there. A lot of them have been on CPAP for a long time. That means that there are lots of people who've replaced machines and kept the old ones for backups. Lots of users died of old age. Lots of non-compliant users threw theirs in the back of the closet. Lots of machines that failed in some way not worth fixing then but the calculation is totally different now.

That means that there are a LOT of machines out there on shelves. People are already out there loaning idle machines to family and friends. Sure, not ideal, but as a short-term-tide-the-world-over fix? totally doable!

I've told this story before (I use it to nudge the cpap-reluctent to use their machines). A former coworker and I were exchanging mask fit war stories, and his story beat mine totally. He explained that 20 years before his wife realized that he had sleep apnea, and wanted him to go to a doctor, but he didn't have health insurance so he didn't want to go. One day they were in line at the Walmart arguing about it, and the lady checking out in front of them turned and said, "My late husband was on cpap and his machine is in my closet and I had no idea what to do with it. If you guys want to follow me home, it's yours." He told me that he used that dead stranger's machine for years until he got a job with health insurance.

We were talking about cpaps earlier this week at work, and one of the kids I work with said his mom was on it. I asked him to describe her machine and he said it was white. So this morning I showed him google images of a dreamstation, Air10ForHer, & vauto, and he pointed to the dreamstation as his mom's. I sent him to the web site about the recall, and told him to tell his mom I have a backup machine that she can borrow if she needs it.
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RE: RECALL THREAD-- IMPORTANT PHILIPS DREAMSTATION & SYSTEM ONE USERS
If Phillips has 50% of the market , many of the machines sitting in closets idle are not the ones you want. I doubt there’s that many Resmed machines sitting around these days. None on eBay, I just went on three sites, [DME link removed, instead go to Supplier #10] is a good example… look at all the resmed machines, they’re all out of stock. Already…..

Was in my hospital yesterday for a cardio check up, wandered down to my pulmonologist who runs his own DME, askED my sleep tech how soon I can could get a resmed machine for a friend, he said probably October from his group.








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Glen in Ft Lauderdale

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RE: RECALL THREAD-- IMPORTANT PHILIPS DREAMSTATION & SYSTEM ONE USERS
(07-08-2021, 06:29 PM)Glen e Wrote: … look at all the resmed machines, they’re all out of stock. Already…..



[DME link removed, instead go to Supplier #1] still has stock but they've raised the prices.







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RE: RECALL THREAD-- IMPORTANT PHILIPS DREAMSTATION & SYSTEM ONE USERS
Out of the Ashes arises my 10+ year old Resmed S9 to the rescue. Yesterday I called Philips (on hold 1 hr) to try and get some information as to time to repair or replace my CPAP. They are very noncommittal, best answer is “it’s going to be awhile”. I asked them what I was supposed to do, answer was quit using the Dreamstation. I said I have OSA and my PCP and Cardiologist say I need to be using the machine, their response was “call your Doctor”. These replies don’t make you feel warm and fuzzy. I then called my insurance company Medicare Health Advantage Plus by United Health Care. While a little more compassionate not a lot of help. They said your machine is 5 years old so qualifies for a replacement but you will need a personal visit to your PCP with sole reason of visit to discuss your OSA, he will then need to issue a new prescription with notes and maybe a new sleep study.


One of the things Phillips, United Health Care and my Doctors office all asked was, do you use an ozone generating device to clean your machine. I don't. This made me wonder if Ozone was the primary culprit even though no one would say. A little research turned up this excerpt from a published article from “Plastics Today Community for Plastics professionals”. Philips noted in today’s announcement that it has received few complaints about the products — 0.03% in 2020 — but has determined based on testing that the foam may expose users to possible risks. It adds that degradation of the foam may be exacerbated by the use of unapproved cleaning methods, such as ozone. High heat and high humidity environments may also contribute to foam degradation, it added.


To read the article, search “plasticstoday/medical/philips Degraded PE-PUR Foam”.

Stay Safe
Bobby
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RE: RECALL THREAD-- IMPORTANT PHILIPS DREAMSTATION & SYSTEM ONE USERS
(07-09-2021, 12:30 PM)fby002 Wrote: [Philips] ... “it’s going to be awhile”


The problem would indeed seem to be enormous, even for a large corporation.

- multiple machine types may require different foam shapes, etc.
- multiple user styles each getting different separate response types (hospitals, sleep labs, end-users, DMEs)
- multiple countries, if "fix" needs country certifications
- multiple languages (for customer responses)
- individual customized setups, so can't just ship standard units (unless they are ApneaBoard members)
- variable customer priorities (SoClean users vs. regular vs. emergency care facilities)
- multiple service depots setup throughout the world
- train service staff on servicing multiple machine types
- determine who gets a "fix" vs. replacements
- respond to individual country demands from country-based government medical agencies
- respond to individual and class-action lawsuits world-wide

We shouldn't expect a replacement machine from Philips for several months.

In the mean time, for months to come, many users globally will continue to use recalled Philips systems with defective foam, as they either don't know, or don't wish to re-purchase, or can't re-purchase for various reasons.

Lastly, asking users in the Philips Recall Registration if they were a SoClean user won't necessarily provide completely accurate results.  Some PAP users don't know the complete history of their machines, if they purchased the machine used or refurbished.  Also, there are some users that may get an annual cleaning of their machine from their DME.  SoClean, or another ozone cleaning method, may have been used in that process.  

If Philips prioritizes SoClean users in the recall program, how about those who live in high-humidity and/or hot environments?  Shouldn't they get a priority too?  What about those with older machines with older foam?  I would think that the owner of a 2009 recalled machine would get a faster response?

Either way, Philips won't be able to sell (for money) a NEW DreamStation 2 device for a very long time!  
How would it look if 3-4 million people are awaiting a "fix" for months and Philips is manufacturing NEW machines for NEW customers?
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RE: RECALL THREAD-- IMPORTANT PHILIPS DREAMSTATION & SYSTEM ONE USERS
I just went to the website of a DME that I use, they have the ResMed AirSense 10 in stock and on sale, these are new units..........
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RE: RECALL THREAD-- IMPORTANT PHILIPS DREAMSTATION & SYSTEM ONE USERS
(07-09-2021, 01:19 PM)WakeUpTime Wrote: The problem would indeed seem to be enormous, even for a large corporation.

...

Either way, Philips won't be able to sell (for money) a NEW DreamStation 2 device for a very long time!  
How would it look if 3-4 million people are awaiting a "fix" for months and Philips is manufacturing NEW machines for NEW customers?

Well one tiny problem will fix itself. Philips isn't going to have any new customers!


... on a totally separate thought that just popped into my head...

Respironics just spent the last 16 months frantically building/sourcing/etc ventilators.

I wonder how many CCPv patients who died after using a (now-recalled) Philips product had foam particles in their lungs when they died?
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RE: RECALL THREAD-- IMPORTANT PHILIPS DREAMSTATION & SYSTEM ONE USERS
I just picked up a nearly new Dreamstation Bipap ST on marketplace for $200, I did the foam removal in about 10 minutes and it works great. I do not need it but will probably keep it as a backup, it can run in cpap mode, bipap s mode, or bipap st mode (non-invasive vent).
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