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[News] RECALL THREAD-- IMPORTANT PHILIPS DREAMSTATION & SYSTEM ONE USERS
RE: RECALL THREAD-- IMPORTANT PHILIPS DREAMSTATION & SYSTEM ONE USERS
I can relate to the ICU part of this description. I got interested in sleep because of what I saw in ICU. As exciting as ICU care is, I really wanted to keep people out of those units. Many of the medical ICU patients were there because of exacerbations of chronic illnesses that were not managed well, for a variety of reasons. And what did many of those chronic illnesses have in common? Possible link to an underlying sleep disorder, either as a contributing factor or as sequelae. I could do so much more for people if their sleep disorders were addressed effectively. Then, interesting timing, I was diagnosed with OSA and the treatment I received as a patient was abysmal. Doc prescribes a specific machine because he likes the data it provides. I traveled a lot. My CPAP was a brick, heavy, big, clunky, noisy, ugly; there was absolutely no choice of anything allowed for me. I got what the MD wanted me to have. I was not happy when I found out there were so many options and I was not informed or asked about my input on anything.  Taking control is not overruling others, it is being an advocate for your own needs. What happened to me and many others violates so much of what we know about successful management of chronic conditions where the more people know are are empowered, the better they do physically and emotionally. When we do not do that, people have no choice but to turn to the internet where they get advice that sometimes is good, but sometimes is not good at all. I have seen many people with central apneas because they were playing with their pressure settings when they did not get good help from the people who should have been helping them with the challenges they were having with their treatment. I love it when people scour the internet and come in with suggestions or demands for what they want. It tells me they want to have a role in decision making. 

What does this have to do with the recall? For me it all accentuates the heinousness of telling people to stop using their machines and, basically, to figure it out for themselves. Work with your physician (who can only write Rx, not procure equipment or payment). Work with your DME (which, in my case, is dumping everything on "We don't have any guidance from Philips"). Pay an exorbitant price out of pocket for a new machine, if you can afford it. Or live with the potentially toxic one you have. This is wholly unacceptable and I have not seen similar treatment anywhere else in 40+ years of work in health care. Imagine, your insulin pump is recalled, just stop using it and work with your physician. No new pump, no replacement, no nothing. Can you imagine? But this is how one company treats people with potentially life threatening sleep disorders, or those whose lives surely will be more miserable and possibly shorter without treatment. I hope the class action suits go for punitive damages. (We might get a donut to go along with that free coffee coupon we are likely to receive in about 7 years or so... ). Yes, cynical about a meaningful settlement, but there are other ways to push for accountability.
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RE: RECALL THREAD-- IMPORTANT PHILIPS DREAMSTATION & SYSTEM ONE USERS
Wow, you guys and gals in here were RIGHT last year when I was diagnosed with apnea and got a DreamStation and you told me I should get a ResMed. (It was not even offered to me)
So I've had 2 nights on the ResMed and NEVER slept so good. Last night, I got 8 hours without waking up once and my "myAIR" score is 100/100 with only 0.6 events per hour. I have three herniated disks in my lower back so causes me to tend to roll around a lot as the pain can wake me up. (I'm resistant to medications, nothing really works, so kinda gave them up.)
I need to find my little SD card reader so I can plug in the chip to my laptop and see the details on Oscar.
Very glad I found a ResMed...if anyone lives near Colorado Springs, my provider says she has more and they are new.
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RE: RECALL THREAD-- IMPORTANT PHILIPS DREAMSTATION & SYSTEM ONE USERS
"sleeprn: I can relate to the ICU part of this description. (WOW) I got interested in sleep because of what I saw in ICU. As exciting as ICU care is, I really wanted to keep people out of those units. Many of the medical ICU patients were there because of exacerbations of chronic illnesses that were not managed well, for a variety of reasons. And what did many of those chronic illnesses have in common? Possible link to an underlying sleep disorder, either as a contributing factor or as sequelae. I could do so much more for people if their sleep disorders were addressed effectively. Then, interesting timing, I was diagnosed with OSA and the treatment I received as a patient was abysmal. Doc prescribes a specific machine because he likes the data it provides. I traveled a lot. It was a brick, clunky, noisy, ugly, absolutely no choice of anything allowed. I got what the MD wanted me to have. That violates so much of what we know about successful management of chronic conditions where the more people know are empowered, the better they do physically and emotionally.."

And" Or live with the potentially toxic one you have. This is wholly unacceptable and I have not seen similar treatment anywhere else in 40+ years of work in health care."

I am always learning more every day. I really thought my first sleep doctor was a quack, a power-mad stinker, but at least he was accurate and I got copies of the full two night's sleep reports. He prescribed a ASV machine as the reports stated I have complex sleep apnea.

I also was lucky as I joined this and one other website like here and did a bunch of research and was then shopping for a good deal and a good machine.

I was then able to get a good deal from Supplier #2 for a Phillips ASV System One 950 ASV, and was using Sleepyhead program the early version to OSCAR from Day One.

I left the first dr. as he was so upset that I made changes to my settings. He did not like that I wanted to be involved with my own treatment.

I have been on my own ever since.

I was able to do that THANKS to this and the other site's helpful people.

Rich
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RE: RECALL THREAD-- IMPORTANT PHILIPS DREAMSTATION & SYSTEM ONE USERS
People you really do need to consider that ResMed is not all that better that Phillips.

They are NOT.

First there foam in their machines, hidden within the fan housing. I learned that from a utube reviewer.

Second their Masks: the Memory foam F20 has a problem, when I first got them they would split within a week or two. My doctor prescribed 3 customs and one new mask PER MONTH to keep me in them.

After about a year they had fixed the splitting problem and I was cut back to one per month, which is considered normal for this mask. IF your buying them it is a monthly cost.

I love it and had stockpiled about 8 of them in new sealed factory containers.

I then run into a problem and started trying to use those old masks and discovered that the foam goes bad over time even in sealed containers. It kind of turned a little gooier, it was not correct.

And I also discovered that the mask hose connecter ResMed supplies with these models of masks has a ring of foam and a retainer that also is bad, it will clog up the controlled air leaks and cause the pressure in your mask to go up. This could happen within a month or two. This turned out to the problem I was having with my masks, the higher pressure in the mask from blocked vents was causing major mask leaks.

Lucky they have two versions of these elbow connectors, one with the foam and one without. The one without does not jam up anywhere near as fast. it can take Months not weeks. And as I have an air compressor I can blow THE VENTS CLEAN, you cannot do that with the foam model, and removing the foam does not work as the vents are not the same and you get a very nosier mask.

SO I contacted ResMed about both problems, I asked for replacement masks and was trying to inform them about the blockage in the elbow connectors.

They more or less said, go away you're bothering us.

I was told to take the mask problem to my DME and they said they did not care about the problems with the masks or the connector.

One last note, Resmed also tried to sue a major Utube Reviewer for copyright infringement; he feels it was to shut him up. This guy: "Philips CPAP Recall Update - What You Don't Know!" Do a search on utube and you should find him.

Seems they were not happy with his reviews…so what do they have to hide??

So they are no better than Phillips in how they treat us.

Rich
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RE: RECALL THREAD-- IMPORTANT PHILIPS DREAMSTATION & SYSTEM ONE USERS
The suggested life by both ResMed and Phillips is 5 years…many of these machines will easily last 10 and even 15.

The Only major problem is the fans. And then simple wear and tear and lastly the rubber seals.

So as there is no reason and is not been any, real in fact no changes in the operating systems or the machines that can make your life and treatment any better, there is NO reason to replace a good working machine. Even my old 950 and 960 still could treat me.

But the companies are sure trying…New models that LOOK different, and a policy to do as much as possible to hinder your repairing and performing upkeep on older machines.

So far the rebuilding costs can be very good, (rebuilding is a new mainboard and fan) but I fear that will end soon..I was able to get older Phillips 950 and 960 ASV models rebuilt for only $250.00.

Now to rebuild my Dreamstation ASV it runs around $500.00.

I was told to do the same to a ResMed Air Curve 10 ASV would also run around $500.00.

And for how long?? Phillips no long will supply parts for the 950, it was locked out last year. I was told the 960 will also be locked out soon.

I make it that was about ten years.

Like I have been saying they are joined at the hips...

Rich
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RE: RECALL THREAD-- IMPORTANT PHILIPS DREAMSTATION & SYSTEM ONE USERS
It’s obviously you felt that way from the beginning. So be it, that’s your opinion. Mine is totally different. My brother has a dream station and I have a resmed. We both been on them for about a year or so, and he is constantly complaining that he is filling up with air on his dream station and just can’t sleep with it very well. So I lent him my résmed for two weeks, as my apnea is virtually gone after losing a tremendous amount of weight. It was like night and day to him. He could sleep up to eight hours solid, got a 100 on the MyAir score, and reduced incidents From about five down to one. He put the dream station on the shelf and bought a resmed last week. Couldn’t be happier. There was a significant night and day difference for him.

I could give a damn about the foam scare.. Right now I believe that it’s different from the one dreamstation uses. No one has shown me that the resmed has a problem or linked to any conclusive data, it’s all just paranoia at this point.

I’m sure you’ll write a novel of response to this but I won’t be responding, as there’s nothing more that needs to be said; it works for him.
Glen in Ft Lauderdale

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RE: PHILIPS VS. RESMED
Regarding the core issue of Philips' foam degradation (accelerated by SoClean) and cancer-causing chemical agents used in that foam, I have to believe that ResMed passes acceptably those issues.  ResMed is making ongoing statements that they do.

ResMed would have a lot more to lose than Philips if they were later proven wrong.  If I'm not mistaken, ResMed's entire operation is built around ventilators and accessories.  Their stock price would plummet if they were shown to have mislead the public as to the safety of its systems, especially since they're mostly the sole beneficiary to Philips defective system designs.

If the above assumptions about ResMed were to be proven wrong, everyone should immediately borrow as much money as they can and purchase put-options on ResMed's stock and they'd later have more wealth than they'd know what to do with.
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RE: RECALL THREAD-- IMPORTANT PHILIPS DREAMSTATION & SYSTEM ONE USERS
Glen e, your right if it works for him Fantastic, glad to read it. Nothing to say but I am glad for you and him.

Some people are Ford people others Chevy. Simple.

I like both.

And I will also own both a Phillips and a Resmed.

An important fact is my testing has been with ASV machines and BiPAP machines.

I have NOT tried any other models, so you could be 100% right about ResMed VS Phillips with CPAP and APAP.

I just do not know.

I do know both companies do not seem to give a Rats...tail about us, the users, from personal contact with both companies.

I feel everyone should know the reality I have encountered.

So you can go forward with your eyes wide open with full knowledge.

Neff said.

Rich

(07-14-2021, 11:14 AM)WakeUpTime Wrote: Regarding the core issue of Philips' foam degradation (accelerated by SoClean) and cancer-causing chemical agents used in that foam, I have to believe that ResMed passes acceptably those issues.  ResMed is making ongoing statements that they do.

ResMed would have a lot more to lose than Philips if they were later proven wrong.  If I'm not mistaken, ResMed's entire operation is built around ventilators and accessories.  Their stock price would plummet if they were shown to have mislead the public as to the safety of its systems, especially since they're mostly the sole beneficiary to Philips defective system designs.

If the above assumptions about ResMed were to be proven wrong, everyone should immediately borrow as much money as they can and purchase put-options on ResMed's stock and they'd later have more wealth than they'd know what to do with.

I don't see how you would profit from ResMeds downfall, that would only work if the are able to rebound and recover...

Rich
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RE: PHILIPS VS. RESMED
(07-14-2021, 11:49 AM)racprops Wrote: I don't see how you would profit from ResMeds downfall, that would only work if the are able to rebound and recover...


Buying a "put-option" is similar to short-selling a stock, I think.  I was only suggesting that ResMed's entire operation would be in mighty big trouble if ResMed's recent claims to be foam-safe were to be later proven to be untrue.  

One day, someone may write an investigative book about the Philips Recall.  At the very least, it's a major shock to the PAP industry.  There are so many branches to the story.  It would be interesting to see where those branches led to.  For example, Philips' recent announcement of the departure of two key executives, just prior to the recall announcement.  Of course, it may be just a "coincidence".  When did those initial reports of foam particles first come in?  Why did Philips significantly change the foam for the DS2 after 12 years?  Why did Philips change the foam right after they purchased Respironics company?  What instigated the urgency behind suddenly racing ahead with its recall announcement?  Why did Philips delay the disclosure of its problem foam, anywhere from 2 months to as much as 2 years?  Etc. Etc.

An investigative reporter, backed by an investigative media company, might be able to obtain those answers one day.
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RE: RECALL THREAD-- IMPORTANT PHILIPS DREAMSTATION & SYSTEM ONE USERS
I just got off the phone with my financial planner and passed along your ResMed stock tip, he hung up on me. "WakeUpTime"

As a CPAP user, I had no concerns or fears about the equipment I was using. The biggest hassle I had was getting replacement accessories. And then my annual visit to my pulmonologist. 

That all changed on June 16th, when I received an email from my DME concerning the recall. After confirming that my machine was on the recall list, I joined this thread.

These are few things I have learned since this all started:

- We are living our lives with products that have no standards to adhere to, and no requirement for third party testing

- Our health and well being is left to us to somehow manage 

- The manufactures are saying their equipment should last for at least 5 years. Every product has an end-of-life forecast. CPAP 5 years has several other factors to consider;
  1. Insurance companies won't allow you to change before that time, even if it becomes a critical health situation like now
  2. 5 years coincidently is around the time when the manufacturers introduce their new product line
  3. If you own a ResMed machine that is 5 years old but seems to be running just fine and had no intention of upgrading or changing, now you have to be very concerned about what is happening on the inside. Something you would never have even thought about just one month ago 

There are pages more I could add to this, but I will spare you that. I would like to add one more comment:

I am just very tired of going to bed every night and having to worry about my health. There is no one to go to and no one to help you, for now, and for the foreseeable future, you are on your own. I feel luckier than some of you do, I was able to go out and buy a new machine and stopped using my SoClean machine, and go back to soap and water. I still have to worry about the future and what may or may not happen to my health
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