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[News] RECALL THREAD-- IMPORTANT PHILIPS DREAMSTATION & SYSTEM ONE USERS
RE: RECALL THREAD-- IMPORTANT PHILIPS DREAMSTATION & SYSTEM ONE USERS
(07-22-2021, 05:04 PM)Gideon Wrote: Start a PR De-foaming thread.  it will make it easier for users to find it.


Good suggestion...

The Philips de-foaming thread has now been started by brianc18t, here:

http://www.apneaboard.com/forums/Thread-...val-Thread

Folks, please try to keep that de-foaming thread on-topic.  Thanks.  If the topic is de-foaming these machines, please post those types of things in that new thread.  If the topic is directly related to the recall issues, post it  here in this thread.

We're simply trying to make this recall thread a bit more "manageable".  As was stated, it's hard enough for newbies coming to this thread to wade through nearly 900 posts about the recall, if all they want is info about how to de-foam their machine.

Thanks.

Coffee
SuperSleeper
Apnea Board Administrator
www.ApneaBoard.com


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RE: RECALL THREAD-- IMPORTANT PHILIPS DREAMSTATION & SYSTEM ONE USERS
We have registered but heard nothing for several weeks. 
Our sleep specialist (just had a long overdue sleep test overnight recently) suggested getting a full refund and then purchase another machine. 
But not so easy as it sounds in Australia. 
is there a direct contact person who can be aproached to deal with in a friendly and normal customer to supplier way? Is there a direct phone number to get to a real person instead of just a registration process?  Or even an email address?

Is there a class action started? Even though it is several years old noone wants a cancer creating device jamming contaminated air inside themselves, which is whats happening! 

I have not been able to find anything concrete and positive going forward to get action and only a lot of chat one way and another. Philips seems very quiet since the release.
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RE: RECALL THREAD-- IMPORTANT PHILIPS DREAMSTATION & SYSTEM ONE USERS
(07-23-2021, 01:36 AM)minsik Wrote: I have not been able to find anything concrete and positive going forward to get action and only a lot of chat one way and another. Philips seems very quiet since the release.

We are all in that same position, and when I say all that is millions of us around the world. Philips has not communicated with or has made any new announcements.
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RE: RECALL THREAD-- IMPORTANT PHILIPS DREAMSTATION & SYSTEM ONE USERS
This morning, I put the head of the Arkansas Department of Health on ABC's Good Morning America. 

Before we went on the air, I asked him what he'd heard about the recall. He said that was the first he'd heard about it. I figured as much with all the emphasis on new covid-19 cases in our state.

I seems like we are falling through the cracks, at least public health wise, because of the epidemic.
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RE: RECALL THREAD-- IMPORTANT PHILIPS DREAMSTATION & SYSTEM ONE USERS
Nice try:

I have sent out packets of information to the following:
  • Executive Editor; The New York Times
  • Executive Editor; The Washington Post
  • The President of AMA
Several weeks ago WakeUpTime tried to connect with 60 Minutes, after that, I posted that I would attempt to also get news coverage for the crisis we find ourselves in. We are living our lives like canaries in a coal mine. I just want to find a way to fight back and protect our health. 
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RE: RECALL THREAD-- IMPORTANT PHILIPS DREAMSTATION & SYSTEM ONE USERS
Join one of the few mass class action suits that have already started against Philips.
But the way Philips has been playing it, has been like an auto recall, in that they have limited their liabilities under the law by proactively informing users.
That said, despite their pretence that they "just found out about this", there is evidence that they had known about this issue a long time before the recall.
A successful suit should be able to prove to the courts that this is in fact the case and that Philips had known about this life threatening issue, a long time before they finally and reluctantly started the recall process.
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RE: RECALL THREAD-- IMPORTANT PHILIPS DREAMSTATION & SYSTEM ONE USERS
(07-25-2021, 07:38 AM)videomagician Wrote: I seems like we are falling through the cracks, at least public health wise, because of the epidemic.

That's one of the challenges for us at the moment, that's for sure.  There's also the general challenge of educating a reporter (then news director) on what PAP therapy really is.  I remember first being diagnosed with severe sleep apnea and the complexity of it all.  Then I was introduced to the equipment room.  After that, it took months to personalize the therapy to find a way to make it work for me.

Even Philips wouldn't label me as in a life-sustaining PAP situation.  However, if I go just 2 hours without my PAP system, that will be about 2 days of recovering.  The body's adrenaline jolt that kicks in means it will be impossible for me to return to an effective sleep the rest of the evening.  After that, it's a substantial amount of caffeine the next day.  That, mixed with a necessary afternoon nap, means the next sleep shift won't go well.

PAP therapy isn't a cure, but it is "life-sustaining therapy" for many of us.  We can't function to our individual "normals" without it.  The media needs to understand this in reporting on the second phase of this important news event - no results from Philips.  As we'd expect, some law firms do understand the significance of PAP therapy and the true impact of this extensive Philips recall on individual users.

In the beginning, the media might have felt that they reported both the recall news and its successful conclusion (Philips providing fixes), all in just a few paragraphs.  They need to know the reality:

- most patients need to use their PAP systems in order to effectively function in life; it's not merely a beneficial accessory
- many recalled PAP users were required to immediately spend money on a replacement device, as a result of a faulty foam design
- a few PAP users may have developed medical issues that might be related to the ingestion of faulty foam
- there may be other recalled PAP users that may develop issues in the future, that might possibly be related to their prior foam ingestion

Months from now, when Philips has provided recalled device users with their repair/replacement, this event is indeed not closed.  Many recalled PAP users will be out-of-pocket $600-$2,000 while having an additional Philips system that might merely be used as a backup system to their recent non-Philips replacement system.  Along with that, months from now, each of us will be living with the concern over how much foam we ingested and what will be that health impact down the road.  

I believe that each of us should know the state of foam in our recalled machines.  For many, their foam might look as new.  I can't possibly imagine the reaction of some if their foam has significantly deteriorated - perhaps those that were frequent SoClean users, living in warmer higher humidity environments, those with 10+ year-old machines, those who purchased heavily cleaned refurbished systems, etc.  We don't know.  No one is analyzing real-life use; most of all, Philips.  Many might feel "relief".  A few might feel "sickened" by the state of their foam.  

Should we find out, or should we just accept the manufacturer's analysis of a simulated average use of a typical PAP device in an average environment under average conditions using average device settings?

(07-25-2021, 09:37 AM)btreger Wrote: I have sent out packets of information to the following:
  • Executive Editor; The New York Times
  • Executive Editor; The Washington Post
  • The President of AMA

We all THANK YOU so very much for the time that you spent doing that.  I've sent a few more reports to various outlets too, hoping to ignite some additional interest on the "after story".  The first news item was the recall announcement.  There's a significant "next story" that needs to be reported - the significant impact of the recall on users from all the related events as a result of the recall.

(07-25-2021, 10:23 AM)S. Manz Wrote: ... there is evidence that they had known about this issue a long time before the recall.  A successful suit should be able to prove to the courts that this is in fact the case and that Philips had known about this life threatening issue, a long time before they finally and reluctantly started the recall process.

That certainly is a significant issue of its own.  After recalled device owners have been fairly and properly addressed, the courts will have to address the degree to which corporate neglect existed.  That investigation may go on for several years; however, a court may rule that there already is significant evidence to suggest that Philips has been neglectful in its response to early complaints from users of foam particles.
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RE: RECALL THREAD-- IMPORTANT PHILIPS DREAMSTATION & SYSTEM ONE USERS
(07-25-2021, 12:11 PM)WakeUpTime Wrote: - most patients need to use their PAP systems in order to effectively function in life; it's not merely a beneficial accessory
- many recalled PAP users were required to immediately spend money on a replacement device, as a result of a faulty foam design
- a few PAP users may have developed medical issues that might be related to the ingestion of faulty foam
- there may be other recalled PAP users that may develop issues in the future, that might possibly be related to their prior foam ingestion

 Many recalled PAP users will be out-of-pocket $600-$2,000 while having an additional Philips system that might merely be used as a backup system to their recent non-Philips replacement system.  Along with that, months from now, each of us will be living with the concern over how much foam we ingested and what will be that health impact down the road.  
As part of the information I sent out, I used the concerns you just posted and many more from the members of this thread, including my own. I also included all the links with a short overview of their content by date. I tried to combine the human side of this story, supported by all the technical information. I went back through every post, including The Apnea Boards' own TimeLine summary document. I tried the best I could to be as thorough as I could possibly be.
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RE: RECALL THREAD-- IMPORTANT PHILIPS DREAMSTATION & SYSTEM ONE USERS
My problem with the Philips response is that although they may need approval from the FDA for a fix, something they stated they need but may or may not be a true statement. They definitely don't need approval to flat out replace affected machines and they certainly need to do more as far as communicating with registered owners.  I registered a month ago and have not heard anything from them since.
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RE: RECALL THREAD-- IMPORTANT PHILIPS DREAMSTATION & SYSTEM ONE USERS
btreger
...I tried the best I could to be as thorough as I could possibly be.

So very nicely done.  I hope everyone else appreciates all your efforts, as everyone will benefit.  My efforts are motivated by my significant disappointment in the actions by Philips, far beyond my personal interest.  All companies make design mistakes, but we're seeing (and perceiving) Philips has done much more than that over the past few months, and likely, years.  

Not long ago, Philips strategically decided to re-organize and focus mainly on medical systems going forward, except for keeping its very lucrative tooth brush business.  If I were Philips, I would have tried by hardest, at almost any cost, to build the best possible reputation as a result of this incident.  Philips didn't take that approach, but they protected themselves as much as possible.  It's only my speculation, but I would guess that Philips was somehow dragged into announcing the recall after delaying as much as possible.  That has cost, and angered, many end-users, DMEs, hospitals, insurance companies, and more - all around the world.

Philips hasn't given a timeline to a fix/replacement, there's no statement of who gets a fix vs. replacement, there's no compensation offer for having to get an immediate replacement, there was no significant effort to analyze real-life harmful effects on the most impacted defective-foam device users, there are no regularly scheduled information updates for end-users, there was no response to end-user registrations, etc. etc. etc.  Metaphorically, they've "dropped a bomb" and said "let us know who you are and we will fix/replace many user devices in the future".

Philips is so far behind at this point, stuck at the "updated foam approval" while setting up the infrastructure for fixes/replacements.  In the mean time, other countries around the world continually get added to the recall process.  Meanwhile, there are likely many recalled device users who will continue to use their faulty devices for many months to come; while Philips is protected by its instruction to stop using them.  In most other product categories, people can be quite forgiving.  For dependent users of a mostly a life-sustaining medical device, users could have been given a much better effort.
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