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[News] RECALL THREAD-- IMPORTANT PHILIPS DREAMSTATION & SYSTEM ONE USERS
RE: RECALL THREAD-- IMPORTANT PHILIPS DREAMSTATION & SYSTEM ONE USERS
We still don't know the extent of the problem (where have I heard that before?). You write as if patients who spent a night or week on a recalled machine were issued a death sentence.

People can become attached to their grievances and fears and will fight to the death before giving them up. they spend their time mulling over grievance scenarios. I think we all get it by now. PR effed up. It remains to be seen how bad they effed up. I the meantime, making the worst case and spreading anxiety is harmful.
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RE: RECALL THREAD-- IMPORTANT PHILIPS DREAMSTATION & SYSTEM ONE USERS
(07-31-2021, 04:05 PM)btreger Wrote: Do you think any Hospital or doctor would voluntarily come forward and admit they had used or of these now recalled... 

Few would think about that group - until now.  Those re-purposed ventilators no doubt would have been heavily sterilized internally between uses, which would have rapidly accelerated the breakdown of Philips' problematic foam.

Here's a video for the doubters of Philips admissions, or those wishing to play down potential risks associated with Philips' problematic foam:  ⚠️ Philips CPAP Recall Update - What You Don't Know! - YouTube
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RE: RECALL THREAD-- IMPORTANT PHILIPS DREAMSTATION & SYSTEM ONE USERS
It isn’t a matter of “admitting” to using the recalled units. The type of unit used as a ventilator is well documented in the medical records. You can’t hide the facts.  Fact of the matter is that both of the hospitals in my community do not have any of the recalled units.  I asked. But I can’t speak for anywhere else.
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RE: RECALL THREAD-- IMPORTANT PHILIPS DREAMSTATION & SYSTEM ONE USERS
My sleep lab clearly had a recalled unit on the nightstand. With my AHI of 18 (more like 30 for the first half of the night) I would have made the criteria for a split night and been titrated with it on April 1st. But the jackass sleep doc was so sure that I didn't have apnea that he specifically ordered PSG only.

The story with cpap use during covid is that the Chinese and Italian doctors were killing covid patients with the ventilators, and after the US government mobilized emergency production of ventilators the US doctors figured out within a few weeks that they were the wrong tool and that cpaps worked much better. Which is how we ended up with warehouses full of unneeded ventilators!

(I'm familiar with a similar use in a little boy who was very sick waiting for a heart transplant. They used a cpap to assist his breathing for the months he waited for a donor.)

But, anyway, the use of the cpaps was in full improvisation mode. And I'm pretty sure that the hospitals would have been cleaning them pretty thoroughly between patients. Maybe even with ozone?

I do kind of wonder if it was the hospitals who first saw the foam breakdown? Or maybe their reports were the first ones that PR took seriously?

The PR doctor handout specifically talks about the Trilogy unit and makes it sound like it's the ventilator not cpap end of the product line. And that's clearly recalled, too.
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RE: RECALL THREAD-- IMPORTANT PHILIPS DREAMSTATION & SYSTEM ONE USERS
Update...

Our dear friend finally got to see her sleep doc yesterday.

A couple days ago she asked me to send her some info she could take to the doctor visit, so I sent her a PDF of the AB Wiki chronicling the Philips recall. I also recommended that she push for an AirSense 10 AutoSet for Her by ResMed as a replacement.

She said the visit went great. They were willing to give her the AirSense 10 AutoSet for Her, and she gets it for free, but only after another year passes - since her DreamStation is only 4 years old. They gave her a filter to put inline with the hose, and told her to use that, but watch for any more problems with headaches and sinus infections as she constantly had before. I don't think she mentioned that she was using a REMStar that I was able to get for her in the mean time.

She didn't have a part number for the filter but just said it is a little smaller than a grapefruit. My question to the experts here is this... Would such a filter only eliminate particulate matter, or would it also filter out harmful VOC's outgassed by the foam?

Her doc said to come back if she gets the debilitating headaches and sinus infections again, and they would be able to get her an AirSense 10 AutoSet for Her without having to wait out the year. I'm not happy with their response to her situation, but I do understand. Also, she has pretty bad allergies that complicate this whole process. She gets custom shots concocted just for her that seem to be working. But that's a long process too. And keeping these two issues separated is difficult.

I told our friend to be on heightened alert for any of her symptoms using this MO. I hate to see her suffer while doing a "doctor recommended" test such as this.

On the other hand, she does like her sleep doc very much, and at some point she will get a free AirSense 10 AutoSet for Her. I believe her HMO is Sutter in Stockton.
RayBee

~ Self-Treatment - via ApneaBoard experts.
~ Self-Pay - no help from Kaiser other than getting my script, then a pat on the butt and out the door.
~ Self-Educated - via ApneaBoard experts, its many users, and posted reference material.
~ Complex Apnea - All Night AHI=34.2/h, Supine AHI=45.5/h
~ Using a 2021 16" MacBook Pro M1 Max, 32 GB, 1 TB, macOS Monterey V12.6.
~ Pay no attention to the dog behind the cup, he ain't a docta, and does not give medical advise.
~ Woof, woof.

I-love-Apnea-Board
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RE: RECALL THREAD-- IMPORTANT PHILIPS DREAMSTATION & SYSTEM ONE USERS
The filter is doing nothing for outgassing. Compare it to a new car. A new car has the "New Car Smell" but it fades in weeks. That is basically what Philips said. The filter will catch any particles. Inspect it for black flecks (any size) regularly. That would indicate that her machine is actually failing and should be immediately replaced.
She may need to adjust her pressures while using the filters. Try it with humidification but the AB filter is so fine that humidity could "clog" it. If you Post before and after screenshots (OSCAR) we can help with that.

Has the RemStar impacted her headaches?
Does she have a bedroom hepa filter to remove particles and thus improve her allergies? (totally unrelated to the ReCall.)
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RE: RECALL THREAD-- IMPORTANT PHILIPS DREAMSTATION & SYSTEM ONE USERS
@ Gideon......
"She may need to adjust her pressures while using the filters."

I've seen this suggested a few places. The inline filter may likely affect the air flow rate (acts as a resistance to 'speed' of the air flow), but it 'shouldn't' affect the delivered pressure. A manometer on the end of the hose should read the same without filter or with the filter.
I believe most CPAP's have a sensor to detect air flow rate and as well pressure. On a DreamStation 1 there is a setting for 'Tube Type' (15mm or 22mm). A different diameter hose will affect the rate of air flow and this setting would compensate the flow rate sensor response. This setting likely couldn't be used to compensate for filter use.
Increasing the pressure may increase the flow rate, but couldn't it also negatively impact another piece of the algorithm that uses the combined flow rate and pressure values to determine the delivered therapy?


"The filter is doing nothing for outgassing."

Too bad there wasn't an inline activated carbon filter that could remove the VOC's as well as the particulates!!!
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RE: RECALL THREAD-- IMPORTANT PHILIPS DREAMSTATION & SYSTEM ONE USERS
Outgassing -
I'll let her know that her symptoms are likely to return and don't let them progress if she feels like they are getting worse.

Black Flecks -
I'll explain this problem to her and make sure I follow up with check-up calls.

OSCAR -
Yeah, not gonna happen. She and hubby are some of the most technology-challenged folks I know. The best I could hope for is to bring my laptop down there, (an hour drive away form me) set up a second profile and load her data onto my OSCAR. Don't even ask about her zipping the files and emailing them to me. Not gonna happen.

Humidifier -
I'll explain this to her too and keep an eye on it.

RemStar -
Headaches are absent. No sinus infections but she complains about getting a little congestion. Not sure that a bit of congestion is out of the norm for her though.

Hepa Filter -
No. I'll mention it, but I doubt they will get one.

On a side note. I forgot to mention that her Doc told her to get rid of the SoClean.
RayBee

~ Self-Treatment - via ApneaBoard experts.
~ Self-Pay - no help from Kaiser other than getting my script, then a pat on the butt and out the door.
~ Self-Educated - via ApneaBoard experts, its many users, and posted reference material.
~ Complex Apnea - All Night AHI=34.2/h, Supine AHI=45.5/h
~ Using a 2021 16" MacBook Pro M1 Max, 32 GB, 1 TB, macOS Monterey V12.6.
~ Pay no attention to the dog behind the cup, he ain't a docta, and does not give medical advise.
~ Woof, woof.

I-love-Apnea-Board
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RE: RECALL THREAD-- IMPORTANT PHILIPS DREAMSTATION & SYSTEM ONE USERS
I get a little congestion all the time.

If she uses an Ab filter and there are no black flecks, all to the good.

My understanding is that outgassing occurs in the first days of the machine/foams operating. But I don't know definitively!

dealing with AB filter replacement, even once a week; or alternating filters and drying out some on off days, then reusing them, is far better than taking the risk of using a faulty machine that is spitting out foam. I would imagine that leaving a filter in direct sunlight after a night's use might well evaporate off moisture.

No reason to make your friend anxious unnecessarily. I have allergies and have had for decades. I wouldn't want to mistake my allergy symptoms as being caused by carcinogenic off gassing, and freak out, when really...they were just allergies.
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RE: RECALL THREAD-- IMPORTANT PHILIPS DREAMSTATION & SYSTEM ONE USERS
Good to know. Thank you hegel.
RayBee

~ Self-Treatment - via ApneaBoard experts.
~ Self-Pay - no help from Kaiser other than getting my script, then a pat on the butt and out the door.
~ Self-Educated - via ApneaBoard experts, its many users, and posted reference material.
~ Complex Apnea - All Night AHI=34.2/h, Supine AHI=45.5/h
~ Using a 2021 16" MacBook Pro M1 Max, 32 GB, 1 TB, macOS Monterey V12.6.
~ Pay no attention to the dog behind the cup, he ain't a docta, and does not give medical advise.
~ Woof, woof.

I-love-Apnea-Board
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