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No Mask, No Difference?
#11
(08-03-2012, 07:24 AM)zimlich Wrote: Not everyone with sleep apnea feels bad. This is why it's insidious.

I agree on this. "How you feel" is a very, very subjective measure of one's true health. Yes, it is one thing to consider, but folks can "feel just fine" and have heart damage or other issues due to years of untreated OSA that will one day cause a heart attack. The whole time leading up to that point, many times the patient says, "I had no warning at all, after all, I felt just fine".

DC, unless and until you've gone through another sleep study that proves beyond a doubt that you no longer have OSA, get back on that CPAP machine, man. We don't want to lose you, my friend.

Cool

SuperSleeper
Apnea Board Administrator
www.ApneaBoard.com


INFORMATION ON APNEA BOARD FORUMS OR ON APNEABOARD.COM SHOULD NOT BE CONSIDERED AS MEDICAL ADVICE. ALWAYS SEEK THE ADVICE OF A PHYSICIAN BEFORE SEEKING TREATMENT FOR MEDICAL CONDITIONS, INCLUDING SLEEP APNEA. INFORMATION POSTED ON THE APNEA BOARD WEB SITE AND FORUMS ARE PERSONAL OPINION ONLY AND NOT NECESSARILY A STATEMENT OF FACT.



#12
DC: You do have a pulse oximeter I believe, correct? Have you used it since your 10-day "break"? It would be interesting to see if your oxygen saturation levels have been impacted adversely.
We're all family here...you can call me B36 if you'd like!Cool
#13
This is after 3 weeks:


[Image: Oxidata.jpg]

To find answers. It's now been 3 weeks since I used my machine, still no lack of energy, no tiredness, no sat nodding of while on the computer, infact I feel great. I do believe I know why now after ticking boxes and seeing whats changed in my life.

Today will be my first day back on my machine as I may be crazy but Im far from stupid. What I did was a huge risk to myself and I think that lady luck may not always be around

Quote:DC, unless and until you've gone through another sleep study that proves beyond a doubt that you no longer have OSA, get back on that CPAP machine, man. We don't want to lose you, my friend.

I know I will have OSA for the rest of my life and so a study is not needed as we all know there is no cure and anyone who thinks there is needs educating Thanks
DC


#14
(08-04-2012, 12:53 AM)Dreamcatcher Wrote: To find answers. It's now been 3 weeks since I used my machine, still no lack of energy, no tiredness, no sat nodding of while on the computer, infact I feel great.

I'm glad you've decided to start using your machine again.

During your sleep study were you able to get into the deepest levels of sleep? How many arousals did you have versus apneas?
Sleepster
Apnea Board Moderator
www.ApneaBoard.com


INFORMATION ON APNEA BOARD FORUMS OR ON APNEABOARD.COM SHOULD NOT BE CONSIDERED AS MEDICAL ADVICE. ALWAYS SEEK THE ADVICE OF A PHYSICIAN BEFORE SEEKING TREATMENT FOR MEDICAL CONDITIONS, INCLUDING SLEEP APNEA. INFORMATION POSTED ON THE APNEA BOARD WEB SITE AND FORUMS ARE PERSONAL OPINION ONLY AND NOT NECESSARILY A STATEMENT OF FACT.
#15
My sleep study consisted in me sleeping for 90 minutes out of 8 hours at the hospital and a nurse telling me you have sleep apnea and that was all I was told. I later found out I was around fifty + an hour with my machine I have about 3 apneas a night.

The answer to my question was starring me in the face:

Nicotine's mood-altering effects are different by report: in particular it is both a stimulant and a relaxant.[43] First causing a release of glucose from the liver and epinephrine (adrenaline) from the adrenal medulla, it causes stimulation. Users report feelings of relaxation, sharpness, calmness, and alertness.[44] Like any stimulant, it may very rarely cause the often catastrophically uncomfortable neuropsychiatric effect of akathisia. By reducing the appetite and raising the metabolism, some smokers may lose weight as a consequence.[45][46]

When a cigarette is smoked, nicotine-rich blood passes from the lungs to the brain within seven seconds and immediately stimulates the release of many chemical messengers such as acetylcholine, norepinephrine, epinephrine, vasopressin, arginine, serotonin, dopamine, autocrine agents, and beta-endorphin.[47] This release of neurotransmitters and hormones is responsible for most of nicotine's effects. Nicotine appears to enhance concentration[48] and memory due to the increase of acetylcholine. It also appears to enhance alertness due to the increases of acetylcholine and norepinephrine. Arousal is increased by the increase of norepinephrine. Pain is reduced by the increases of acetylcholine and beta-endorphin. Anxiety is reduced by the increase of beta-endorphin. Nicotine also extends the duration of positive effects of dopamine[49] and increases sensitivity in brain reward systems.[50] Most cigarettes (in the smoke inhaled) contain 1 to 3 milligrams of nicotine.[51]

Research suggests that, when smokers wish to achieve a stimulating effect, they take short quick puffs, which produce a low level of blood nicotine.[52] This stimulates nerve transmission. When they wish to relax, they take deep puffs, which produce a high level of blood nicotine, which depresses the passage of nerve impulses, producing a mild sedative effect. At low doses, nicotine potently enhances the actions of norepinephrine and dopamine in the brain, causing a drug effect typical of those of psychostimulants. At higher doses, nicotine enhances the effect of serotonin and opiate activity, producing a calming, pain-killing effect. Nicotine is unique in comparison to most drugs, as its profile changes from stimulant to sedative/pain killer in increasing dosages and use.

Technically, nicotine is not significantly addictive, as nicotine administered alone does not produce significant reinforcing properties.[53] However, after coadministration with an MAOI, such as those found in tobacco, nicotine produces significant behavioral sensitization, a measure of addiction potential. This is similar in effect to amphetamine
#16
Bah...

Many (most?) of us go years undiagnosed and untreated. To suggest that a few nights is in any way seriously dangerous for the average patient is (IMO) poppycock.

The effects of sleep apnea are cumulative, each night without treatment does indeed raise your chances of stroke and may other things, but only by a miniscule amount when taken individually. Heck, my Moms sleep doc even told her that if she didn't want to take her CPAP with her for weekend trips that she shouldn't worry about it.

I don't mean to minimize the issue, it is a serious problem and should be taken seriously. It is not, however, typically an acute problem with immediate and dire consequences. You are simply not going to wake up dead one morning because you didn't put your mask on one night.

And having said all of that, I have never slept a single night without my machine since the day I received it. I sleep better with it and feel better with it, so until they can give me a pill that cures sleep apnea I will continue to use it faithfully.


#17
Although the effects of un-treated OSA are indeed cumulative.... it is also true that un-treated OSA can be a contributing factor in heart attacks.

If someone already has heart issues, sleeping without the CPAP even for a few nights could put enough stress on the heart to put that heart-patient person "over the edge". In these cases, the lack of treatment didn't actually cause the heart attack, although it's very likely to have contributed towards it by putting more strain upon an already-stressed heart.

I would think that the longer you've lived with untreated OSA, or the older you are, the greater risk there is in not using a CPAP every night. Most folks with heart disease don't want to put any extra stress upon their heart by "testing the waters" (taking the mask off for several nights). I sincerely doubt that it would be "okay" for a 92-year old to stop using CPAP just to "see how it goes"... that would bring great risk, IMHO.

Coffee
SuperSleeper
Apnea Board Administrator
www.ApneaBoard.com


INFORMATION ON APNEA BOARD FORUMS OR ON APNEABOARD.COM SHOULD NOT BE CONSIDERED AS MEDICAL ADVICE. ALWAYS SEEK THE ADVICE OF A PHYSICIAN BEFORE SEEKING TREATMENT FOR MEDICAL CONDITIONS, INCLUDING SLEEP APNEA. INFORMATION POSTED ON THE APNEA BOARD WEB SITE AND FORUMS ARE PERSONAL OPINION ONLY AND NOT NECESSARILY A STATEMENT OF FACT.



#18
SuperSleeper,

I don't think we disagree in any meaningful way. People with existing extenuating issues are of course at greater risk by introducing additional stress to their bodies, which is why I was careful to say that I was talking about "the average patient" and typical circumstances. Perhaps I should change my qualifying term to "otherwise healthy"?
#19
Im must stress that I am very fit and this is probably what has helped me through my vacation off the mask. Could you go without your mask for a night and know for a fact that you will wake up the next day. This is the problem, no one knows what will happen but is it worth risking your life to see, NO. I am in no doubt that I will have OSA for life but on the flip side I know my body as I have pushed it to the limit on many trips into the mountains. I did not do what I did lightly and thought long and hard about it. I do things to the extreme sometimes, call me a sleep apnea radical or extremist. If anyone else had done this I would STRONGLY advise them against it.

(I am now back on my apap) Sleep-well


#20
(07-29-2012, 03:24 AM)Dreamcatcher Wrote: Well just back after a 10 day break. Had a great time with NO mask NO machine nothing. Strange thing is, I felt no difference? Not sure at all why this was as I thought I would be dog tired but nope I was fine. The only thing I can put it down too was sleeping position, maybe the way or position you sleep makes all the difference. I never put much thought into it but maybe its time to take readings on the different ways I sleep. Still find it strange!

DC

What was the AHI from the sleep study before you used the CPAP?
What was the AHI after you used the CPAP?
May be your sleep apnea is not severe enough to make a difference.


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