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No apnea recorded during Large Leaks
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Roy289 Online

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Machine: ResMed AirSense™ 10 AutoSet™ for Her CPAP w/ HumidAir™ Humidifier
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Sex: Male
Location: Canada

Post: #1
No apnea recorded during Large Leaks
Scanning back through a months Sleepyhead charts I noticed NO apnea's were recorded during Large Leaks (above Red Line). My mouth must open during LL as many are 23 minutes long but no apneas recorded.

The pressure algorithm is clearly working adjusting pressure due to flow limits etc. My AHI is typical in the 1 to 2 range so this maybe the reason nothing is recorded i.e. too few events.

Interested to hear what others have noticed in their own charts.
10-01-2016 11:22 AM
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PaytonA Online
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Machine: ResMed S9 VPAP Auto
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Sex: Male
Location: Orange County,California

Post: #2
RE: No apnea recorded during Large Leaks
If the leak is large enough, the machine can not detect apnea events.
10-01-2016 11:51 AM
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PaulaO2 Offline
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Post: #3
RE: No apnea recorded during Large Leaks
Nearly all xPAP machines use a kind of air echo to detect what is going on as you breathe. If the leak is too much, it can't detect any kind of echo, even if you are breathing.

PaulaO2
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Breathe deeply and count to zen.

INFORMATION ON APNEA BOARD FORUMS OR ON APNEABOARD.COM SHOULD NOT BE CONSIDERED AS MEDICAL ADVICE. ALWAYS SEEK THE ADVICE OF A PHYSICIAN BEFORE SEEKING TREATMENT FOR MEDICAL CONDITIONS, INCLUDING SLEEP APNEA. INFORMATION POSTED ON THE APNEA BOARD WEB SITE AND FORUMS ARE PERSONAL OPINION ONLY AND NOT NECESSARILY A STATEMENT OF FACT.
10-01-2016 12:40 PM
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Roy289 Online

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Posts: 77
Joined: Apr 2016

Machine: ResMed AirSense™ 10 AutoSet™ for Her CPAP w/ HumidAir™ Humidifier
Mask Type: Nasal mask
Mask Make & Model: P&S 405
Humidifier: Climateline
CPAP Pressure: 7-14
CPAP Software: SleepyHead

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Sex: Male
Location: Canada

Post: #4
RE: No apnea recorded during Large Leaks
PaulaO2

I do see a few places where the flow rate is near 0 in the presence of LL (32) for greater than 10 sec and small modulation is visible. Compared to a true apnea the modulation is higher in amplitude so this appears to confirm your view. My AHI are always below 5 and usually in the presence of about 10% LL, but always below 33. Quite a challenge to eliminate LL without tightening the mask too much. Next step to try another mask with DME.
10-01-2016 01:03 PM
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PaytonA Online
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Machine: ResMed S9 VPAP Auto
Mask Type: Full face mask
Mask Make & Model: Resmed Mirage Quattro
Humidifier: H5i(distilled-top up)
CPAP Pressure: VAuto MinE14.0 MaxI 20.6 PS4.0
CPAP Software: ResScan SleepyHead

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Sex: Male
Location: Orange County,California

Post: #5
RE: No apnea recorded during Large Leaks
Are you sure that your leaks are not through your mouth?
10-01-2016 01:40 PM
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Roy289 Online

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Posts: 77
Joined: Apr 2016

Machine: ResMed AirSense™ 10 AutoSet™ for Her CPAP w/ HumidAir™ Humidifier
Mask Type: Nasal mask
Mask Make & Model: P&S 405
Humidifier: Climateline
CPAP Pressure: 7-14
CPAP Software: SleepyHead

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Sex: Male
Location: Canada

Post: #6
RE: No apnea recorded during Large Leaks
Yes, I believe my mouth must be open or at least air leaking between my lips. Usually wake up with very dry mouth and lips sealed shut. Typical LL is under 33.
10-01-2016 02:47 PM
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PaytonA Online
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Machine: ResMed S9 VPAP Auto
Mask Type: Full face mask
Mask Make & Model: Resmed Mirage Quattro
Humidifier: H5i(distilled-top up)
CPAP Pressure: VAuto MinE14.0 MaxI 20.6 PS4.0
CPAP Software: ResScan SleepyHead

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Sex: Male
Location: Orange County,California

Post: #7
RE: No apnea recorded during Large Leaks
Yep,

Been there, done that but SuperSleeper won't give me the Tshirt. Coffee Eat-popcorn Big Grin Big Grin Big Grin

Dry mouth is usually a sign of air leaking out through your mouth. To rectify that you need to learn the tongue seal and make it enough of a habit that it stays that way all night or get a chin strap or get a full face mask. One alternative to a chin strap is a foam cervical collar.

Chin straps can be less simple than they sound and can be worn numerous different ways. Just keeping the mouth closed is enough for some people but that by itself will not prevent mouth leaks. For some people a chin strap is a training aid which makes it easier and reminds them throughout the night to maintain the tongue seal

Full face masks can be a little more difficult to get sealed than others but can also produce very positive results. They do require more headgear tension than smaller masks.

There are people here who can help you whatever way you decide to go.

Best Regards,

PaytonA
10-01-2016 06:27 PM
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FrankNichols Offline

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Post: #8
RE: No apnea recorded during Large Leaks
FFMs do not necessarily solve the mouth breathing/dry mouth problem - I still have it. I believe while sleeping I open my mouth sufficiently to have the lower edge of the mask slip into my mouth and result in leaks through my mouth and out.

Chin straps for me had the added complication of encouraging/causing? me to swallow air, which resulted in a very uncomfortable experience for the next day or two.

There is a LOT of money to be made by someone that can solve the mask issue with CPAP therapy. Researching this it has for years been the number one problem and often the main reason many people just give up on the therapy.

I am not a Medical professional and I don't play one on the internet.
Started CPAP Therapy April 5, 2016
I'd Rather Be Sleeping
10-01-2016 06:41 PM
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PaulaO2 Offline
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Posts: 8,067
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Machine: S9 Autoset
Mask Type: Full face mask
Mask Make & Model: F&P Simplus
Humidifier: H5i
CPAP Pressure: 14-20
CPAP Software: SleepyHead

Other Comments: Ehlers-Danlos Syndrome, Hypermobility Type; chronic sarcasm

Sex: Undisclosed
Location: western NC, USA

Post: #9
RE: No apnea recorded during Large Leaks
If the leak graph goes up then kinda flat tops like a rocky plateau for a while vs looking like the US Rockies, then it is mouth breathing.

If it is spiky like the Rockies and jumps up and down a lot, then it is probably a mask leak.

I think it is because the mouth opens and stays open while the mask will flutter sort of. Different than the lips fluttering.

PaulaO2
Apnea Board Moderator
www.ApneaBoard.com


Breathe deeply and count to zen.

INFORMATION ON APNEA BOARD FORUMS OR ON APNEABOARD.COM SHOULD NOT BE CONSIDERED AS MEDICAL ADVICE. ALWAYS SEEK THE ADVICE OF A PHYSICIAN BEFORE SEEKING TREATMENT FOR MEDICAL CONDITIONS, INCLUDING SLEEP APNEA. INFORMATION POSTED ON THE APNEA BOARD WEB SITE AND FORUMS ARE PERSONAL OPINION ONLY AND NOT NECESSARILY A STATEMENT OF FACT.
10-01-2016 09:14 PM
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Roy289 Online

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Posts: 77
Joined: Apr 2016

Machine: ResMed AirSense™ 10 AutoSet™ for Her CPAP w/ HumidAir™ Humidifier
Mask Type: Nasal mask
Mask Make & Model: P&S 405
Humidifier: Climateline
CPAP Pressure: 7-14
CPAP Software: SleepyHead

Other Comments:

Sex: Male
Location: Canada

Post: #10
RE: No apnea recorded during Large Leaks
Thought I had mastered the tongue seal ... but once asleep facial muscles relax and mouth must open. Leakage is mainly flat topped so must be open mouth leakage. Bought a basic chin strap but not comfortable adapting to it. Early in first two months of therapy tried numerous nasal and ffm. Terrible time trying to stop leaks on the ffm due mainly to larger perimeter to make a seal. Avoiding pillow masks as don't like anything near my nose.

Back to the DME next week although undecided on which mask to try next, Read good reviews on the F&P Forma.
10-01-2016 10:29 PM
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