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Non-Vented masks
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stcrim Offline

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Post: #1
Non-Vented masks
SuperSleeper Wrote:[Image: warning.gif]
Admin thread warning to CPAP users: This thread contains information concerning a specific type of full face mask that is not designed for CPAP use. It could be dangerous if readers attempt to use these types of masks without seeking professional medical help. Thanks.


Has anyone ever used a non-vented mask to increase Co2 and reduce CAs?
09-07-2015 11:56 AM
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justMongo Offline

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Post: #2
RE: Non-Vented masks
Does such a thing even exist?

CO2 is dangerous in high concentration. In manned spaceflight and submarines, it's the CO2 that becomes deadly when scrubbers fail.

Please do not experiment with this.

INFORMATION ON APNEA BOARD FORUMS OR ON APNEABOARD.COM SHOULD NOT BE CONSIDERED AS MEDICAL ADVICE. ALWAYS SEEK THE ADVICE OF A PHYSICIAN BEFORE SEEKING TREATMENT FOR MEDICAL CONDITIONS, INCLUDING SLEEP APNEA. INFORMATION POSTED ON THE APNEA BOARD WEB SITE AND FORUMS ARE PERSONAL OPINION ONLY AND NOT NECESSARILY A STATEMENT OF FACT.
(This post was last modified: 09-07-2015 12:07 PM by justMongo.)
09-07-2015 12:06 PM
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sonicboom Offline

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Post: #3
RE: Non-Vented masks
Although I'm no doctor the general consensus here is that reducing max pressure can decrease CAs as well as reducing EPR.

Coffee
09-07-2015 12:13 PM
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stcrim Offline

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Post: #4
RE: Non-Vented masks
Non-Vented masks are used regularly in hospitals: http://www.resmed.com/int/products/hospi...nc=dealers

Cpaps tend to wash out the needed Co2. I'm not talking about added Co2 just preventing it from washing out which would be increasing it over regular Cpap Co2 content.
09-07-2015 12:27 PM
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archangle Offline
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Post: #5
RE: Non-Vented masks
This isn't really a do it yourself thing in my opinion. If you get it wrong, you could lose consciousness and suffocate. It scares me to even talk about it. Someone could try it the wrong way and kill themselves.

Do you plan to have an external exhale port and short hoses or what?

Get the free SleepyHead software here.
Useful links.
Click here for information on the main alternative to CPAP.
If it's midnight and a DME tells you it's dark outside, go and check it yourself.
09-07-2015 12:32 PM
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stcrim Offline

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Post: #6
RE: Non-Vented masks
This is an example of an at home version: [commercial link removed, instead, do a search for "Mojo Non-Vented Full Face Mask"]

I'm not sure they would be available if they were that dangerous...





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Moderator Action: Link Removed
To maintain our status as an educational organization, the only commercial links allowed in this forum are to CPAP-related manufacturer websites. This is stated in the Apnea Board Rules with details given in the Commercial Links Policy section.
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(This post was last modified: 09-07-2015 12:38 PM by stcrim.)
09-07-2015 12:37 PM
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justMongo Offline

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Post: #7
RE: Non-Vented masks
(09-07-2015 12:37 PM)stcrim Wrote:  This is an example of an at home version: [commercial link removed, instead, do a search for "Mojo Non-Vented Full Face Mask"]

I'm not sure they would be available if they were that dangerous...

That is a prescription item; and non-vented would be a specialty item. Which means it's for use under medical supervision where a physician has deemed it appropriate.

The most often prescribed treatment for CSA is the ASV PAP machine. It detects CSA events and ventilates the patient by supplying timed pulses of air to non-invasively ventilate the patient.

INFORMATION ON APNEA BOARD FORUMS OR ON APNEABOARD.COM SHOULD NOT BE CONSIDERED AS MEDICAL ADVICE. ALWAYS SEEK THE ADVICE OF A PHYSICIAN BEFORE SEEKING TREATMENT FOR MEDICAL CONDITIONS, INCLUDING SLEEP APNEA. INFORMATION POSTED ON THE APNEA BOARD WEB SITE AND FORUMS ARE PERSONAL OPINION ONLY AND NOT NECESSARILY A STATEMENT OF FACT.
09-07-2015 12:57 PM
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stcrim Offline

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Post: #8
RE: Non-Vented masks
So how does one prevent or slow Co2 washout that contributes to CAs? When I restrict my nostrils to 4mm holes with waterproof tape (using a Wisp mask) my medium respiration rate comes down from 17 or 18 to 15 or 16 and the CAs disappear. My AHI drops from close to or above 5 to -0- or just a little above.

Without the tape, the more pressure the more CAs - the less pressure the more obstructives.

The problem with what I am doing is the tape becomes annoying during the night and becomes a source for awakenings.
09-07-2015 01:00 PM
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PoolQ Offline

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Post: #9
RE: Non-Vented masks
That is a mask for a ventilator which is completely different than a CPAP machine, ASV or otherwise.

While on the surface, using that mask would indeed prevent washing out CO2, but only for a few seconds and then all you would have is 100% CO2 and zero O2. You would end up either ripping the mask off in a total panic, gasping for air or if you could not get the mask off fast enough you would pass out and could end up dead.
09-07-2015 01:10 PM
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archangle Offline
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Post: #10
RE: Non-Vented masks
(09-07-2015 01:00 PM)stcrim Wrote:  So how does one prevent or slow Co2 washout that contributes to CAs? When I restrict my nostrils to 4mm holes with waterproof tape (using a Wisp mask) my medium respiration rate comes down from 17 or 18 to 15 or 16 and the CAs disappear. My AHI drops from close to or above 5 to -0- or just a little above.

Without the tape, the more pressure the more CAs - the less pressure the more obstructives.

The problem with what I am doing is the tape becomes annoying during the night and becomes a source for awakenings.

The problem with what you're doing is that if you restrict the exhaust vent, you increase rebreathed CO2 and decrease O2 levels. You could reduce the O2 to dangerous levels. You could lose consciousness and not wake up before you suffocate. It's a bit like putting a plastic bag with a hole in it over your head. If the hole is too small, you could die.

There have been some experiments in controlled settings with various schemes to increase the rebreathing of exhaled air, but I hesitate to mention them, because if you get them wrong, you could die. It's not something to experiment with on your own.

It's a good idea, but if you do it wrong, you could die. There's just not a safe way to experiment with it on your own.

Get the free SleepyHead software here.
Useful links.
Click here for information on the main alternative to CPAP.
If it's midnight and a DME tells you it's dark outside, go and check it yourself.
(This post was last modified: 09-07-2015 01:16 PM by archangle.)
09-07-2015 01:15 PM
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