Not mouth breathing but air leaking between lips

[Roy289]

I briefly tried the F10 but recall it has plastic frame that would dislodge the mask sideways on your face when attempting to sleep on your side. Not sure I grasp how you use the non-stretchy velcro. A picture(s) would help. Think we have some velcro material somewhere.

Roy

[MitchS]

A picture(s) would help. Think we have some velcro material somewhere.

Roy

I agree, Frank. I have been thinking of using your technique. Pictures would help us better visualize what you are doing.

[Sleepster]

Roy, if you haven't yet tried the chin strap with a nasal mask, doing that would be my first recommendation. If that solves the leak problem, great. If it doesn't, you'll have to go to the full face mask.

Regardless of which mask you use, you must stop the leaks to get effective therapy.

Setting EPR to its maximum value of 3 may help with the aerophagia but watch that it doesn't raise your CA index.

If aerophagia is still a problem, try lowering the pressure, but monitor your OA and H indices closely to make sure they don't go up significantly.

You may have to go to bi-level therapy to address the aerophagia. For me, I need both a lower pressure and bi-level therapy to combat aerophagia, so the solution is auto-adjusting bi-level therapy.

[FrankNichols]

Here you go, I only had to support the upper straps to get mine to work, if that had not worked, then I was going to cover/replace the lower also. It's easiest if you have double sided velcro, so, it sticks to itself - I try to keep it lose enough that the silicone seal is still inflating and the mask is floating on it, but tight enough that it doesn't leak at my pressure of 19.

The black on the lower straps is to hold them, the velcro on the lower straps had "worn out" and would come lose during the night - guaranteed the "real" velcro won't be wearing out! So I just set strap where I wanted it, and wrapped a pice of the non-stretchy around it to hold it in place.

On the upper straps I Ran a wide piece over the top of my head (it didn't need to be wide, I just thought it did ) and then the smaller width just basically lays on top of the stretchy, goes through the slot at the mask and around the large over the head piece, sticking to the black piece running over the top.

I bought 45 feet of either 1 1/2 inch or 2 inch double sided(it was CHEAP on Amazon - like $12 for 45 feet vs $8 for 6 feet or something like that - it's been a while), and I cut it in half lengthwise to get the narrower pieces. I expect either 1/2" or 3/4" wide would work fine everywhere.

Like I said, I get about 5% to 10% large leaks reported some nights now, if I am sleeping more peacefully, I have had large leaks go down to almost zero.

Oh, the reason I bought the double sided non-stretchy velcro to start with was to try the "baseball cap" chin strap a doctor posted a video on youtube. The idea was to cut the brim off a baseball cap, then use non-stretchy velcro attached to it as a chin strap - velcro runs from cap under your chin and up to the other side. Since it doesn't stretch his theory was that it would hold your jaw closed, since your jaw will open with stretchy, since your jaw is so strong. That works well, but you can still breath/leak through your lips. So, instead of a ball cap, I just used the 2 inch velcro around my head, and then another piece attached to it and down the sides under my chin, so I didn't have to sew it onto a cap - worked great - except the lips leaking part

So, when that didn't work, I tried "fixing" my head gear for the F10 with the same stuff, since I now have a life time supply of it. Amazing all the places you find you can use Velcro when you have a 45 foot roll! LOL.

[MitchS]

Thanks Frank. Nice job on the modification.

[FrankNichols]

BTW, I had to adjust my stretchy straps every fews days, a week in between at most. I have not had to adjust my non-stretch straps even once since I put it together.

[Roy289]

Frank, nice job. The picture helps a lot.

Last night put the chin strap underneath my nasal mask head gear. Mask wasn't leaking and was secure even during turns of my head. Woke after 3h 15m and noticed AHI 0.1 ... Looking good

BUT this morning discovered I had two major LL during that first period one lasting 27m and another 13m which must be mouth open.

Second session 2h only one brief 1m LL, remainder very low leaks around 2.5 l/m or zero.

So need another night using chin strap under nasal head gear to check results. Plan to visit DME to return Simplus ffm and discuss options this afternoon.

thanks everyone for your suggestions. Sleepster hope I can avoid changing to bi-level

[Sleepster]

BUT this morning discovered I had two major LL during that first period one lasting 27m and another 13m which must be mouth open.

Don't give up on the chin strap too soon. Sometimes it takes time for the mouth-leaking to subside. If it doesn't you'll need a full face mask so keep one handy if you can.

[MitchS]

BUT this morning discovered I had two major LL during that first period one lasting 27m and another 13m which must be mouth open.

Don't give up on the chin strap too soon. Sometimes it takes time for the mouth-leaking to subside. If it doesn't you'll need a full face mask so keep one handy if you can.

I agree. I had to experiment to find where to wear the chin portion of the chin strap for the best results. I found I had to wear it further back toward my throat than normal. I have better luck with my chin strap when I wear it over my headgear. It makes them both more stable for some reason.

robysue made a good point. Finding an acceptable level of leaks is all some people can do. I struggled with leaks with FFMs and nasal pillows until I found a way to make the P10 and a chin strap work well enough to get the treatment I need. Although I haven't completely stopped the leaks, I have them down to a level I can live with. I haven't had a large leak for several months since going with that combination. My RERAs are almost completely gone, AHI is usually below 1 and most importantly, I feel rested when I wake up in the morning.

[PoolQ]

I started with the Simplus and it leaked near my eyes. I found that after I got it in place, if I slightly lifted and pulled it towards my chin I could get a better seal over my nose.

I ended up changing to the Amara View mask and while it has its own issues to figure out, I have found my mask-no nose pressure, well controlled leaks, no mouth breathing. many love this mask and perhaps as many just can't get it to work right.