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Now we know where the air goes, but ...
#1
Now we know where the air goes, but ...
... how can that tiny bit of pressure stabilise the tissues?  As sleeprider wrote:

"If you were to blow bubbles into a glass of water through a straw, the most pressure you ever experience is the the amount to hold a bubble at the end of the straw in less than 6 inches of water.  So the CPAP cannot inflate even a pool raft because the pressure is too low."

It surely can't inflate anything serious: it can't be the (physical) force of pressure, that's too low.

Mike

PS: I've been searching for that cause, but couldn't find anything to answer my question.
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#2
RE: Now we know where the air goes, but ...
Experience and data show that is enough to keep the airway open. If not, CPAP wouldn't work to treat obstructive apnea.
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#3
RE: Now we know where the air goes, but ...
(07-12-2019, 07:35 AM)Melman Wrote: Experience and data show that is enough to keep the airway open. If not, CPAP wouldn't work to treat obstructive apnea.

Yep, it works. What more evidence is needed that the pressure is sufficient? It's not trying to move flexed muscles, just relaxed tissue.
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#4
RE: Now we know where the air goes, but ...
Stunning how little pressure that is. The highest pressure a CPAP is capable of is 8 inches.
Fred Bonjour - Project Manager and Lead Tester for OSCAR - Open Source CPAP Analysis Reporter 
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#5
RE: Now we know where the air goes, but ...
(07-12-2019, 07:35 AM)Melman Wrote: Experience and data show that is enough to keep the airway open. If not, CPAP wouldn't work to treat obstructive apnea.

Or there is some other -- maybe physiological -- cause.

Mike
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#6
RE: Now we know where the air goes, but ...
(07-12-2019, 11:01 AM)multicast Wrote:
(07-12-2019, 07:35 AM)Melman Wrote: Experience and data show that is enough to keep the airway open. If not, CPAP wouldn't work to treat obstructive apnea.

Or there is some other -- maybe physiological -- cause.

Mike

What do you mean?
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#7
RE: Now we know where the air goes, but ...
If you consider that your airway undergoes pressure changes throughout the respiratory cycle, it is less surprising. By maintainng positive pressure, ir prevents collapse, particularly when you begin to inhale and the airway goes from slightly positive to neutral pressure to a "vacuum" negative pressure due to the lungs sucking air. The vacuum without CPAP allows tissue collapse just like a straw when you suck on a milkshake. by maintaining positive pressure, the airway does not collapse. Imagine pulling water through a hose rather than pushing water through a hose.
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#8
RE: Now we know where the air goes, but ...
(07-12-2019, 11:01 AM)multicast Wrote:
(07-12-2019, 07:35 AM)Melman Wrote: Experience and data show that is enough to keep the airway open. If not, CPAP wouldn't work to treat obstructive apnea.

Or there is some other -- maybe physiological -- cause.

Mike

There is clear evidence that it keeps the airway open. If there's some other cause it would have to be in addition to this one, not instead of it.
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INFORMATION ON APNEA BOARD FORUMS OR ON APNEABOARD.COM SHOULD NOT BE CONSIDERED AS MEDICAL ADVICE. ALWAYS SEEK THE ADVICE OF A PHYSICIAN BEFORE SEEKING TREATMENT FOR MEDICAL CONDITIONS, INCLUDING SLEEP APNEA. INFORMATION POSTED ON THE APNEA BOARD WEB SITE AND FORUMS ARE PERSONAL OPINION ONLY AND NOT NECESSARILY A STATEMENT OF FACT.
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#9
RE: Now we know where the air goes, but ...
As air is accelerated down a tube, the pressure against the walls of the tube drops because air moving more quickly has less pressure than air moving more slowly.  This principle is what allows the shape of wings to lift aircraft.


If the tube wants to collapse on itself, or only when inhaling, the positive pressure of the 'pump' behind that accelerating air helps to stave off the collapse.  So, as recently described in another thread, the PAP's fan increases speed in response to intake because it is needed to maintain normal pressure against the inner walls of the tube.  As the patient exhales, the fan backs off because it doesn't need to maintain that positive air flow.  Your collapsing diaphragm and ribs provide it instead.
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#10
RE: Now we know where the air goes, but ...
Thanks Sleeprider and mesenteria, now I can see the light and understand that "splinting" thing. The positive pressure on inhaling surely can't inflate anything, but prevents the "hose" from collapsing, that's what it's all about and makes perfectly sense. (But it can't prevent the tongue from blocking the airways, e. g.)

Mike
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