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Numbers just now under 5.0 Terrible Fatigue onset. Normal?
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retired_guy Offline

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Post: #11
RE: Numbers just now under 5.0 Terrible Fatigue onset. Normal?
AshSF's advice on adjusting your pressure is excellent. Even though you don't have the "for her" machine. That is basically the method I went through on my S9 to get to where I'm at. As a gauge, I watched the "flow limit" graph in addition to the event indexes and pressures. What started out as low ahi's but a choppy flow limit, smoothed out to where my average ahi is less than 1., and the flow limit is baby bottom smooth.

Good job Ash, documenting the process.

Oh, and by the way? When you feel like you would really enjoy a nice power nap? Do that.
(This post was last modified: 02-06-2015 12:52 PM by retired_guy.)
02-06-2015 12:51 PM
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AshSF Offline

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Post: #12
RE: Numbers just now under 5.0 Terrible Fatigue onset. Normal?
(02-06-2015 12:51 PM)retired_guy Wrote:  AshSF's advice on adjusting your pressure is excellent. Even though you don't have the "for her" machine. That is basically the method I went through on my S9 to get to where I'm at. As a gauge, I watched the "flow limit" graph in addition to the event indexes and pressures. What started out as low ahi's but a choppy flow limit, smoothed out to where my average ahi is less than 1., and the flow limit is baby bottom smooth.

Good job Ash, documenting the process.

Oh, and by the way? When you feel like you would really enjoy a nice power nap? Do that.
Thanks Retired_Guy.

I believe you have given the missing piece of the algorithm for the Resmed users. Flow Limit can be used as a proxy for RERAs and other such disturbances to sleep quality. If the FLs are in control, then RERAs are also in control.

As Dr. Krakow (or maybe Dr. Park) said: Snores will grow to be FLs. FLs will grow to be RERAs. RERAs will grow to be Hypos. Hypos will grow to be Obstructives. So if you have your FLs in control, it reduces all the subsequent events by proxy.

Started APAP 4-20, Closed range to 7.5-14, then straight 8.0 w/ Aflex 3
RDI always below 1. But sleep much much better at straight pressure.
Started on F10, Tried Quattro Air successfully. Finally settled on P10.
02-06-2015 03:07 PM
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justMongo Offline

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Post: #13
RE: Numbers just now under 5.0 Terrible Fatigue onset. Normal?
You may have other conditions that result in fatigue.
Perhaps they have already been diagnosed.
Perhaps not.

I still unwind like a cheap watch several times per day. Yet I sleep ~8 hours and have a good AHI.

INFORMATION ON APNEA BOARD FORUMS OR ON APNEABOARD.COM SHOULD NOT BE CONSIDERED AS MEDICAL ADVICE. ALWAYS SEEK THE ADVICE OF A PHYSICIAN BEFORE SEEKING TREATMENT FOR MEDICAL CONDITIONS, INCLUDING SLEEP APNEA. INFORMATION POSTED ON THE APNEA BOARD WEB SITE AND FORUMS ARE PERSONAL OPINION ONLY AND NOT NECESSARILY A STATEMENT OF FACT.
02-06-2015 03:12 PM
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quiescence at last Offline

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Post: #14
RE: Numbers just now under 5.0 Terrible Fatigue onset. Normal?
when I unwind it is more like opening the wrapper on NECCO wafers. http://www.necco.com/Candy/Wafers.aspx and there is no putting me back. just gotta go to bed.

@AshSF - another great post on adjusting for RERA. I gotta do this, as I am just wanting to rid myself of it. EncoreBasic says my 2 week average of RERA is 0.8 per hour.

@HEN - we gotta get our friends that struggle with CPAP, the 13%, to really experience the RERA free life. got one of our friends dreaming again, so yahoo!

Look for the road sign that reads "quality sleep ahead".

QAL

Dedicated to QALity sleep.
You'll note I am listed as an Advisory Member. I am honored to be listed as such. See the fine print - Advisory Members as a group provide advice and suggestions to Apnea Board administrators and staff concerning Apnea Board operation and administrative policies. Membership in the Advisory Member group should not be understood as in any way implying medical expertise or qualification for advising Sleep Apnea patients concerning their treatment.
02-06-2015 05:05 PM
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OpalRose Offline

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Post: #15
RE: Numbers just now under 5.0 Terrible Fatigue onset. Normal?
(02-06-2015 03:07 PM)AshSF Wrote:  
(02-06-2015 12:51 PM)retired_guy Wrote:  AshSF's advice on adjusting your pressure is excellent. Even though you don't have the "for her" machine. That is basically the method I went through on my S9 to get to where I'm at. As a gauge, I watched the "flow limit" graph in addition to the event indexes and pressures. What started out as low ahi's but a choppy flow limit, smoothed out to where my average ahi is less than 1., and the flow limit is baby bottom smooth.

Good job Ash, documenting the process.

Oh, and by the way? When you feel like you would really enjoy a nice power nap? Do that.
Thanks Retired_Guy.

I believe you have given the missing piece of the algorithm for the Resmed users. Flow Limit can be used as a proxy for RERAs and other such disturbances to sleep quality. If the FLs are in control, then RERAs are also in control.

As Dr. Krakow (or maybe Dr. Park) said: Snores will grow to be FLs. FLs will grow to be RERAs. RERAs will grow to be Hypos. Hypos will grow to be Obstructives. So if you have your FLs in control, it reduces all the subsequent events by proxy.


Ash, I agree with the above...but how does one control the Snores???
My Sleep Doc said that when looking at the graphs, they are really not snores, and it's only the machine picking up any noise or vibrations and flagging the noise as snores. I wasn't sure if he is right or not!
OpalRose

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02-06-2015 05:57 PM
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AshSF Offline

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Post: #16
RE: Numbers just now under 5.0 Terrible Fatigue onset. Normal?
(02-06-2015 05:57 PM)OpalRose Wrote:  
(02-06-2015 03:07 PM)AshSF Wrote:  
(02-06-2015 12:51 PM)retired_guy Wrote:  AshSF's advice on adjusting your pressure is excellent. Even though you don't have the "for her" machine. That is basically the method I went through on my S9 to get to where I'm at. As a gauge, I watched the "flow limit" graph in addition to the event indexes and pressures. What started out as low ahi's but a choppy flow limit, smoothed out to where my average ahi is less than 1., and the flow limit is baby bottom smooth.

Good job Ash, documenting the process.

Oh, and by the way? When you feel like you would really enjoy a nice power nap? Do that.
Thanks Retired_Guy.

I believe you have given the missing piece of the algorithm for the Resmed users. Flow Limit can be used as a proxy for RERAs and other such disturbances to sleep quality. If the FLs are in control, then RERAs are also in control.

As Dr. Krakow (or maybe Dr. Park) said: Snores will grow to be FLs. FLs will grow to be RERAs. RERAs will grow to be Hypos. Hypos will grow to be Obstructives. So if you have your FLs in control, it reduces all the subsequent events by proxy.


Ash, I agree with the above...but how does one control the Snores???
My Sleep Doc said that when looking at the graphs, they are really not snores, and it's only the machine picking up any noise or vibrations and flagging the noise as snores. I wasn't sure if he is right or not!
OpalRose
Snores don't really disturb my sleep quality (or else I would have gotten tested for OSA much earlier Smile )

But raising my min pressure from 4 to 7.5 has reduced all indices RERAs, FLs and my snore indices (VS and VS2) as well.

And then, one thing that really reduced the VS VS2, FL & RERA in one swoop was moving from an FFM (F10) to a Nasal Pillow Mask (P10) on my PRS1 60 series auto. I guess its probably due to the fact that with a mask resistance setting of zero, I am effectively getting more pressure in a P10 than a F10.

What helped in my case was that CAs did not show up as my min pressure increased.

Started APAP 4-20, Closed range to 7.5-14, then straight 8.0 w/ Aflex 3
RDI always below 1. But sleep much much better at straight pressure.
Started on F10, Tried Quattro Air successfully. Finally settled on P10.
02-06-2015 06:19 PM
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TheManseHen Offline

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Post: #17
RE: Numbers just now under 5.0 Terrible Fatigue onset. Normal?
Wow ya'll this has been much more informative than I'd hoped when I wrote the OP. Excellent information. I need to read and re-read it, maybe copy it to a word doc for pondering.

QAL- Enjoyed the Necco flashback!

AshSF- Yes you cleared that up for me wonderfully!

Retired_Guy, I did indeed, follow the siren call of the sleep nap lure....I have the best husband in that, though he misses me when I'm asleep at odd times, he really understands how irresistible the need to take a nap is for me. He always encourages me to have a good nap if I feel the need. He tends to need very little sleep and yet still understands everyone is different. He was understanding before he knew that I had apnea and never treated me like I was just being lazy to be so tired and for that I am so grateful.

I am a full time home-maker (obviously NOT given the above) but I truly do not know how I'd have kept going if I'd had a full time job and the apnea. I only had a 26.6 on my fairly abbreviated study (they needed the equipment back way early in my sleep cycle) but I felt like I was sludging through mud for the better part of the last year.

Re: other things to make sleepy, not that I know of. That said, I did end up going back on the evil Carbemazepine which generally makes me sleep more, to deal with the re-invigorated Trigeminal Neuralgia (thanks to mask sitting on trigger points) Now that I'm more awake in general and getting up earlier etc, I shall get me to my GP for a check up.

Toodles,
The Manse Hen
02-07-2015 04:44 AM
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me50 Offline

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Post: #18
RE: Numbers just now under 5.0 Terrible Fatigue onset. Normal?
(02-07-2015 04:44 AM)TheManseHen Wrote:  Wow ya'll this has been much more informative than I'd hoped when I wrote the OP. Excellent information. I need to read and re-read it, maybe copy it to a word doc for pondering.

QAL- Enjoyed the Necco flashback!

AshSF- Yes you cleared that up for me wonderfully!

Retired_Guy, I did indeed, follow the siren call of the sleep nap lure....I have the best husband in that, though he misses me when I'm asleep at odd times, he really understands how irresistible the need to take a nap is for me. He always encourages me to have a good nap if I feel the need. He tends to need very little sleep and yet still understands everyone is different. He was understanding before he knew that I had apnea and never treated me like I was just being lazy to be so tired and for that I am so grateful.

I am a full time home-maker (obviously NOT given the above) but I truly do not know how I'd have kept going if I'd had a full time job and the apnea. I only had a 26.6 on my fairly abbreviated study (they needed the equipment back way early in my sleep cycle) but I felt like I was sludging through mud for the better part of the last year.

Re: other things to make sleepy, not that I know of. That said, I did end up going back on the evil Carbemazepine which generally makes me sleep more, to deal with the re-invigorated Trigeminal Neuralgia (thanks to mask sitting on trigger points) Now that I'm more awake in general and getting up earlier etc, I shall get me to my GP for a check up.

Toodles,
The Manse Hen

to bad that your doc didn't try other medications like neurontin (not that they don't have side affects but maybe less than what you have been taking)
02-07-2015 11:44 AM
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