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OSCAR & Swapping ResMed S10 Machines & SD Cards?
#1
OSCAR & Swapping ResMed S10 Machines & SD Cards?
This Thread is Posted because my wife's ResMed S10 AirSense AutoSet might have a fault (it looks to be shutting down without user input every now and again), and we do have a couple of spare ResMed S10 machines if needed.

We have no Insurance, Warranty or Supplier involvement, these are our own ResMed machines and we can do what ever we want to them without invalidating anything!

I have dismantled and fully cleaned a few ResMed S10s, so am quite familiar with the mechanical disassembly side and with all of the main components.

Part I - OSCAR and Multiple ResMed S10 Machines and/or Multiple SD Cards

Apologies if I have missed this somewhere but, can anyone advise if it's OK for an OSCAR User/Profile to change between different ResMed S10 machines and for the Profile to accept that change and keep the existing logs and Summary on-going?

By that I mean if I need to swap my wife to a different ResMed S10 machine, is it OK to keep using the same OSCAR Profile but upload Data from a different ResMed S10 machine?

Such as swapping between ResMed S10 machines if I end up trying her on a different machine or machines, which may also involve switching back to hers as well?

Or, do I need to set up a new OSCAR Profile for her linked to each different ResMed S10 machine?

I would prefer to keep to just the one OSCAR Profile so that we can continue to see the long term overview.

Likewise, should I prepare a new SD Card for the alternative ResMed S10 machine(s), or can I swap her current SD Card between machines and just upload the Data to OSCAR each day, as usual, without this confusing either the ResMed machines or OSCAR?

I'm sure we have a few old SD Cards lying around, so I can easily Format those and just allocate one to each ResMed S10, if needed.

Ideally, I would like to keep using just her current OSCAR Profile, to keep her records flowing and intact.

Part II - ResMed S10 AirSense AutoSet Fault

The other issue is the fault, which seems to be a - currently - infrequent and random shutting down without any human intervention!

We do not use any Auto Start features, so it is always a manual switch on, and off.

Therefore, my initial suspicion is this is either a Power Supply failing, or some internal PCB, Sensor or Heat Plate fault that is triggering a shut down during Therapy.

I don't think she has spilt any water on the Heat Plate, I clean all of our kit daily, which includes the Humidification Tanks, and hers has always been dry when removed.

I have not yet seen this shut down happen but, I can see from OSCAR that, last night, her S10 did switch off at 22:27 and 22:36.

My wife was wide awake watching TV in bed when the above two shut-downs happened, so she can confirm that it wasn't her doing it. Her ResMed S10 just shut down all of its own accord. But, it also switched back on again straight away when she pressed the upper button. So, what ever it was, it was not a total failure, more a random glitch.

Likewise, the other night it went off when asleep, and she did have many Apnoeas for around an hour whilst it was off. However, she may have accidentally switched it off, but we cannot be sure. Likewise, it could have shut down by itself too. That time there were some other factors, such as a large Mask Leak just ahead of that, and movement logged by her Viatiom Oximitry unit's Log, so it's quite possible that was a half-asleep switch off on her part and she just nodded off whilst it was off!

I appreciate it could be a Power Supply Unit ("PSU") failing so, that is one of the things I will try and check and, thankfully, we do have a few spare S10 PSUs to swap around with. But, I don't want to chase my tail, and will try and work through this logically to pin-point what the actual cause is, rather than grabbing at straws and confusing the issue.

All of the spare PSUs give the correct Voltage but, I do not know if they keep that up when under load. I will need to work out a way of setting up a test unit to put them under load and then see if they keep working correctly. They are all used, so there is a potential that they could be weak units. I just do not yet know and cannot yet test them.

I don't think it would be wise to swap PSUs with such an intermittent fault, because the replacement PSU could also be faulty until I can test one under load.

I don't yet know if I can see any S10 fault codes via the S10's Clinician's Menu, suspect not, as I don't recall anything like that (the machine is not in front of me right now).

I may swap her to a different ResMed, or two, but want to try and work out what the problem is with her machine first, if possible.

Assuming for a moment that it's the MotherBoard, I was wondering what the effect might be to swap her machine's very low hours Motor into another ResMed S10? Obviously it will fit, as the S10 Motors are all the same I think, but I wonder what the effects will be in terms of, say, the Hours Log?

For example, will the Hour Log from her Motor update the Firmware in the other ResMed S10 (currently with higher hours), or vice versa?

Do the Motors even record their Hours? I cannot see any obvious PCB inside of them, they just look like basic Brushless Motors, but I have not taken one apart.

I must stress that this playing around with Parts has no effect on anyone other than us, the machines will not be sold on, and so what the Hours Logs say is not crucial. But, I would nevertheless like to keep each machine either showing its own hours, or the hours of the Motor that it is fitted with if that somehow updates the Firmware if a Motor is swapped.

Likewise, I would not want to over-write a low hours Motor with higher hours from another S10 machine just by fitting that Motor temporarily.

I also appreciate that I cannot calibrate a unit after swapping parts, all I can do is check the maximum pressure via a small Electronic Manometer I bought, that I have linked to an old ResMed F20 Elbow Joint, that more or less provides the correct Air Leak rate as if a Mask was fitted.

So far, all of our ResMed S10 machines seem to Test to around the 20 cmH2O level when set to Mask Fit Test, plus or minus a small amount that is immaterial.

Sorry it's a few questions, but I think you will get the gist of it!

In summary:

(1) Possibly faulty ResMed S10.

(2) In terms of OSCAR Logs, can I swap S10s and SD Cards around, and what effect will that have on OSCAR and/or multiple S10 machines?

(3) Can I swap ResMed S10 Motors between S10 machines and not rat up the hour log, either way!

No rush, I will aim to update if I work any of this out myself in the interim!

Lastly, I do have the kit to attempt an Airbreak Firmware hack on a ResMed S10, I just have not got around to that yet. It will be interesting to see if when I can access the Firmware, what other Settings can be changed such as, for example, the Language. I will also update if and when I get a chance to play with that.

I won't be doing that on either of our main ResMed S10 units, but will try it on one of our spare used and cleaned S10 units.

MoreBeers
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#2
RE: OSCAR & Swapping ResMed S10 Machines & SD Cards?
Trying to take your questions in order:
  1. Possibly faulty ResMed S10:  It sounds like you may have a problem. I would recommend that you contact your DME supplier for a service request. If you suspect the power supply, it sounds like you may have several others to choose from to test this theory. If not, an alternative would be to purchase a 3rd party brand from Amazon for around $33.

  2. Swap S10s and SD Cards around:  A CPAP will record it unique serial number to the SD card.   Only one serial number per card is allowed.  It is not recommended sharing an SD card among different CPAP devices.  Since you are using the exact same brand of CPAP, you can include each CPAP's SD card in one profile.  I recommend that you label each card, so you don't return it back to the wrong CPAP.  Yes, this has happened here before.  

    Because various manufacturers report different parameters, and some may be in a different format than a competitor's model, mixing different brands within a profile is highly discouraged.

  3. Motor swap:  The run hours for a pneumatic block (Resmed's technical term for the blower assembly) are stored on a chip that is embedded in this part, thus the time travels with the blower.  This is because this is the only wear part in the device. To reset the time on this chip requires knowledge greater than most people possess, so the simple answer is no, it can't be done.  

Crimson Nape
Apnea Board Moderator
www.ApneaBoard.com
___________________________________
Useful Links -or- When All Else Fails:
The Guide to Understanding OSCAR
OSCAR Chart Organization
Attaching Images and Files on Apnea Board
Apnea Helpful Tips

INFORMATION ON APNEA BOARD FORUMS OR ON APNEABOARD.COM SHOULD NOT BE CONSIDERED AS MEDICAL ADVICE. ALWAYS SEEK THE ADVICE OF A PHYSICIAN BEFORE SEEKING TREATMENT FOR MEDICAL CONDITIONS, INCLUDING SLEEP APNEA. INFORMATION POSTED ON THE APNEA BOARD WEB SITE AND FORUMS ARE PERSONAL OPINION ONLY AND NOT NECESSARILY A STATEMENT OF FACT.
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#3
RE: OSCAR & Swapping ResMed S10 Machines & SD Cards?
Excellent, many thanks for the response.

"1. Possibly faulty ResMed S10:  It sounds like you may have a problem. I would recommend that you contact your DME supplier for a service request. If you suspect the power supply, it sounds like you may have several others to choose from to test this theory. If not, an alternative would be to purchase a 3rd party brand from Amazon for around $33."

I regret we do not have a Supplier, all acquired either from our NHS upon prescription, or pre-used. The possibly faulty S10 was pre-used, but very low Hours (100), and it has been fine for over 2,000 hours ever since until these possible random Shut Downs.

I'll see how I get on swapping PSUs, the one supplied (S10 PSU Model 370001 24V 3.75A) is testing at 24.1 to 24.2 Volts but, I cannot yet say if it's keeping to that under load. I note that there may be a very small centre pin in the Power Connector, and that when plugged into the S10, this connects to a small PCB with three wires coming from it: Red, Black and White.

I wonder if the PSU presents different Voltages via the three possible connections, i.e. Outer Metal, Inner Metal and then Centre Pin?

I have only checked the Outer and Inner Metal to get the 24.1 to 24.2 Volts above. In the cold light of day I will see if I can Test some more to check if there is anything different coming via the Centre Pin.

"2. Swap S10s and SD Cards around: A CPAP will record it unique serial number to the SD card. Only one serial number per card is allowed. It is not recommended sharing an SD card among different CPAP devices. Since you are using the exact same brand of CPAP, you can include each CPAP's SD card in one profile. I recommend that you label each card, so you don't return it back to the wrong CPAP. Yes, this has happened here before."

That makes perfect sense, many thanks. I just needed to check before using up several SD Cards. But I will indeed Format one per S10, and will Label them appropriately. Once I did accidentally insert my SD Card to upload to my wife's OSCAR Profile but, as I have far more Data, I thankfully spotted it was different and taking longer than usual, so I decline to upload when asked, and avoided a Data mess!

"Because various manufacturers report different parameters, and some may be in a different format than a competitor's model, mixing different brands within a profile is highly discouraged."

Of course, I should have thought of that. The different Brands do indeed generate different Reports, as I have seen on this Forum, so thanks for that. At the moment we only have S10s, but may end up with a hydrid if I get the Airbreak plan working. But I can ponder than when the time comes, and can set-up a new Profile if needed, such as if the BIPAP S10 option generates markedly different Reports to the CPAP/APAP S10.


"3. Motor swap: The run hours for a pneumatic block (Resmed's technical term for the blower assembly) are stored on a chip that is embedded in this part, thus the time travels with the blower. This is because this is the only wear part in the device. To reset the time on this chip requires knowledge greater than most people possess, so the simple answer is no, it can't be done."

Thanks, sorry, I wasn't totally clear. I was not seeking to modify the Hours Log, just wanted to avoid screwing up an S10 or Motor's (AKA Pneumatic Block) Hours Log by temporarily swapping the components around when testing.

Such as, say, fitting a Motor with 2,000 hours into an S10 with 4,000 hours, and ending up with both the S10 and the 2,000 hour Motor with 4,000 hours!

That would leave me with a 2,000 Motor updated to 4,000 hours for no other reason than because I swapped it temporarily into a higher hours S10!

Or, Vice Versa, albeit that would be more sensible if an S10 on, say, 2,000 hours, gets a higher hours Motor, say, 4,000 hours, and then updates the Hours Log to that of the Motor, namely 4,000 hours. Again, not desirable if just testing, but it would prevent anyone fixing an S10 on fairly low hours, with a high hours Motor, and not mentioning it before sale!

Worst case scenario could then mean if I had one Motor on 20,000 Hours (I don't), and I swapped everything around a few times, then all S10s and all Motors would end up showing the highest hours seen, namely the 20,000 hours! Hell, I would obviously not want that!

If you see my point? I am just wondering if anyone has tried this, and what was the effect?

Anyway, it may be interesting to see what happens, if only so people are aware of any pitfalls when swapping such components around.

Out of shear curiosity, I may try that between two S10 machines with similar - but not identical - hours, just to see what happens. That's if I have a pair where it doesn't matter a great deal, either way, just to see if the Motor's hours changes the S10's Hour Log upwards, or if an S10's Hours Log decreases to match a lower hours Motor's hours!

I suspect they are both like car Odometers, which should just increase with use, never decrease unless fiddled!

But, the interesting question remains: what happens when components are swapped around all with differing hours?

Which way, if any, does the S10 Hours Log jump when faced with a Motor with differing hours, be that lower and also higher?

Likewise, does the S10's Hours Log affect a Motor's Hours Log if different? Does the Motor immediately jump to the hours of the S10?

I'm hoping the Motor and S10 Hours Logs are effectively independent, but by the sound of things, because the Motor keeps a track of it, then this suggests it must report its hours to the S10 when fitted. If so, what exactly does the S10 do with a reading that changes?

I suppose another worst case could be if any hours mismatch throws up a DOES NOT COMPUTE ERROR and declines to work! That would be a King sized PITA for anyone trying to keep older S10s going but, as I have not heard of anyone saying swapping components does not work, I think I will be OK on that front.

I suppose ResMed's Technicians may have a way to deal with this but, maybe not. I say that because they would probably only ever fit a new Motor with zero hours to, say, repair an S10 with a faulty Motor. In that case, the S10 may just ignore the Motor's hours (zero in this example) and just retain the S10's own Hours Log, and just keep going up from there?

It may be that the Motor's Hours Log is just for use when, say, throwing up a MOTOR IS OUT OF HOURS warning that I know the S10 can do above a certain age or hours reading. That may make sense. The S10 reports its own hours via the Clinical Menu, but also reads the Motor's hours just to determine if it has exceeded any limit that warrants a message to the user that the Motor is OUT OF HOURS.

In that case, swapping components should not affect anything. The S10s will, or should, just keep their own cumulative Hours Log, and what ever Motor is fitted will not change anything, until the Motor's own Hours Log exceeds a pre-set limit that triggers the S10's MOTOR IS OUT OF HOURS message. That could be it.

OK, I'll see how I get on and will update if anything interesting comes to light.

MoreBeers
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#4
RE: OSCAR & Swapping ResMed S10 Machines & SD Cards?
I see you mentioned the Airbreak.  This is a proof-of-concept hack only, and it turns on all menu items.  This leads to displaying multiple entries of the same exact options.  Problems caused from not knowing which one to use is just one stumbling block in putting this hack into a workable solution. If you haven't guessed, I have played with it, realized its shortcomings, and then put it away.

What I was trying to convey about the run hour chip being fixed to the pneumatic block is its run hours will follow it to any device that it is installed in.  If you had a 200 hour AS10 and installed a blower from a 16,000 hour CPAP, your low hour AS10 would now be a 16,000-hour puppy.  The blower is basically the only consumable item within the CPAP.
Crimson Nape
Apnea Board Moderator
www.ApneaBoard.com
___________________________________
Useful Links -or- When All Else Fails:
The Guide to Understanding OSCAR
OSCAR Chart Organization
Attaching Images and Files on Apnea Board
Apnea Helpful Tips

INFORMATION ON APNEA BOARD FORUMS OR ON APNEABOARD.COM SHOULD NOT BE CONSIDERED AS MEDICAL ADVICE. ALWAYS SEEK THE ADVICE OF A PHYSICIAN BEFORE SEEKING TREATMENT FOR MEDICAL CONDITIONS, INCLUDING SLEEP APNEA. INFORMATION POSTED ON THE APNEA BOARD WEB SITE AND FORUMS ARE PERSONAL OPINION ONLY AND NOT NECESSARILY A STATEMENT OF FACT.
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#5
RE: OSCAR & Swapping ResMed S10 Machines & SD Cards?
>>>> It is not recommended sharing allowed to share an SD card among different CPAP devices.

Fixed that for you, CN
Apnea Board Monitors are members who help oversee the smooth functioning of the Board. They are also members of the Advisory Committee which helps shape Apnea Board's rules & policies. Membership in the Advisory Members group does not imply medical expertise or qualification for advising Sleep Apnea patients concerning their treatment.
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#6
RE: OSCAR & Swapping ResMed S10 Machines & SD Cards?
Yes, I had read quite a bit about Airbreak, and do fully understand what it is. I am just very curious to take a closer look.

I will, when I can find the time. But, from what you say, probably not to create a working machine unless safe operation can be established via workarounds.

Thanks for the further clarification on the Motor hours issue.

That was indeed my concern, because I had a feeling that could be the case, i.e. that the Motor's hours will simply update the S10's hours.

Despite that, it's still OK to do if it gets an S10 operational but, that effect needs to be considered to best match Motor hours from the available Motors, to the machine hours of the target S10s, if at all possible.

I wonder what happens if a lower hours Motor is fitted? Suspect nothing, and the S10 will in that case probably just keep the hours it has already logged.

I would not think it will reduce the S10's hours to that of the Motor but, it just might.

Or it could add S10 hours to the replacement Motor's hours and really compound the issue!

I will have a play over the next few weeks, and will see what happens when mixing components where I do know the hours of both.

I have one quite tidy looking S10, with what looks like a good Motor. But I cannot check the Motor's hours because the S10 was water damaged due to, presumably, some accident via the Humidification Unit. I think looking at it, this was possibly dropped or knocked off the side when full of water.

I cleaned the PCB as best as I could, and removed anything obvious causing a short, but it just trips a PSU if powered up, so the PCB is probably scrap without detailed repair that is well beyond my experience.

Likewise, I have another S10 with a very noisy Motor which is otherwise working. I may put those together, and try to get an operational S10 albeit I have no idea what hours the Motor is from the burnt out S10 for the above reasons. Hopefully the Motor wasn't affected and may go again if swapped into the one with a noisy Motor.

My wife is waiting for a booking at an NHS Sleep Clinic, but it's taking ages. No other choice in the interim than to buy her a pre-used S10 to deal with obvious Sleep Apnoea (from oximetry data and from test sessions with my S10). All being well, she will get her own new S10 or possibly S11 but, for now, I just have to keep us going with what we have, including a pile of pre-used ones bought for spares and to create back-up units.

I will keep this Thread updated on any progress I make. This may take a little while!

MoreBeers
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#7
RE: OSCAR & Swapping ResMed S10 Machines & SD Cards?
I have an A10 autoset and an A10 vauto and I go back and forth. Each machine has its own main card, its own backup card, and its own folder on my computer which is a copy of the card.


When I get my A11 I am intending to load that data into my profile, too. But that will be a third main card, third backup card, third folder on my computer.

I load everything into my one profile because I am one person and I want to be able to directly compare my data. But that would make a mess if they weren't all from the same manufacturer.
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#8
RE: OSCAR & Swapping ResMed S10 Machines & SD Cards?
"I load everything into my one profile because I am one person and I want to be able to directly compare my data. But that would make a mess if they weren't all from the same manufacturer."

That's the plan here too and, as all we have are ResMed S10 units, this should work in that case. I cannot ever see us getting non-ResMed units for the foreseeable future.

I have an OSCAR Profile for both myself, and for my wife, so the main issue is just making damned sure I insert the right SD Card when updating either Profile!

With more than one OSCAR Profile, even if the SD Cards are well labelled, it's possible the wrong OSCAR Profile is active, depending upon which of our two was used last.

Translated: it depends on if I am fully awake!

Probably less of an issue for you if you have just the one OSCAR Profile?

As I say, I very nearly cocked that up once, but spotted it whilst it was preparing the upload, and managed to back pedal!

Having said that, it got as far as adding my S10's Serial Number to my wife's OSCAR Profile, but without any Data to go with it because I declined to proceed with the upload when OSCAR kindly asked me if I was sure!

Presumably OSCAR picks the machine's Serial Number up first from the SC Card, before any new Data is accepted.

MoreBeers
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#9
RE: OSCAR & Swapping ResMed S10 Machines & SD Cards?
It does indeed look at the serial number first.

Are you saying it would be good to raise a query if this serial number hasn't been seen in this profile? Not to reject it, but merely to ask "Do you really mean this?"
Apnea Board Monitors are members who help oversee the smooth functioning of the Board. They are also members of the Advisory Committee which helps shape Apnea Board's rules & policies. Membership in the Advisory Members group does not imply medical expertise or qualification for advising Sleep Apnea patients concerning their treatment.
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#10
RE: OSCAR & Swapping ResMed S10 Machines & SD Cards?
"Are you saying it would be good to raise a query if this serial number hasn't been seen in this profile? Not to reject it, but merely to ask "Do you really mean this?""

Thinking about it, yes, that may be a very good addition to consider for OSCAR, because it would help those who have multiple OSCAR Profiles.

Such as my wife and I, who each have an OSCAR Profile, and each have identical ResMed S10 units effectively differentiated mainly via Serial Number as far as Oscar is concerned.

Another - related - option could be to be able to also delete a machine from a Profile if Data was accidentally added, or even aborted whilst about to be added.

My wife's OSCAR Profile has my S10 listed, but there is no Data linked to that, it was just a legacy of my mistaken attempt to upload using the wrong SD Card.

I suppose this just boils down to the likely problems people may encounter when they have more than one OSCAR Profile, and each with a different machine.

In turn, some may also share or swap a Machine between them, so it must still be possible to use the same machine with more than one OSCAR Profile, as is the case now I believe.

But, for now, we are using an OSCAR Profile each, and an S10 each, so it would be good to see a warning when a new Machine Serial is attempted to be uploaded, or if it has not been seen for a while if already seen before.

Thanks for picking this up as a suggestion, I had not considered it as that.

MoreBeers
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