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Online version of sleepyhead
#1
Was just curious whether or not anyone would use an online version of sleepyhead if one existed?  I have been thinking about how nice it would be to have access to my data on a phone, or wherever I was by simply logging in.  I was thinking a web app (scalable for phones) that stored data online for ease of access might be really nice and make sharing data very simple, but it occurred to me people might be hesitant to allow their data to be stored online.    Obviously some other large hurdles are storage and server expense, but those aren't insurmountable. 

So:  

  1. Would you use a web based version of sleepyhead? 
  2. Would you allow your data to be stored in the cloud?  For example on an AWS server.  
  3. IF not, would you allow it to link with a private dropbox account to view and save data from there?  
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#2
If available I would use an online version of Sleepyhead. I am in favor of automation and mobility.
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#3
The biggest obstacle is the program itself, not the data. You can assign your data to a cloud drive today if you want, and access it from multiple computers. Note that is computers not devices, because the program itself does not run on phones, tables and other portable devices. In addition to Windows and Mac iOS the program has to be compiled for Linux operating systems, and the data import that is reliant on SD cards rather than BT or wireless formats is a smaller hurdle. The increasing use of machines not supported by Sleepyhead limits its use. The biggest problem is lack of a succession plan or hand-off (sale?) from the individual that invented and programmed SH on a freeware model, to a group that can either continue that development as freeware or a sustainable commercial product.

I don't see anything like what you're proposing as likely unless Sleepyhead, or a program like it becomes commercial. Be assured, the machine manufacturers and medical community won't be helping to help patients become more self-sufficient. They all have their own proprietary software, and the patient isn't supposed to be able to access the good stuff. Only software sold to DMEs and physicians has the efficacy and diagnostic goods.

All the decoding of machine data without manufacturer documentation, and its translation to a format used in SH is the real voodoo, and we will be lucky if the software keeps up as new machine models come on the market, because it all relies on one individual that struggles with health issues that limit his effort to the project. There are a handful of volunteers that assist with development, but the program itself is in the mind and hands of Jedimark.
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#4
Totally agree sleeprider.  There are some serious hurdles.  I actually use a shared cloud drive right now with sleepyhead to access from any location I have the program installed.

As for the decoding and translating:  all of the code is open source and could be ported to run on a server such as amazon or azure.  It would not be a trivial amount of work, but if we could get by that hurdle it would only be worth it IF folks were willing to store health data online.  Otherwise it makes sense to keep sleepyhead, or an alternative as stand alone local installation.

Edit to address one thing:  It appears from the sleepyhead site, that Mark Watkins has allowed free use of the code as open source under GPL v3.  As long as a user complies with the GPL v3 licensing requirements, anyone can take on updating the application, or at a minimum creating a branch and using the code in a new application.  

My main goal with this question was to try and conceptualize how folks saw their use with sleepyhead or an alternative going forward.  It really seems like there needs to be a direction for the continuation of sleepyhead as the importance of Mark Watkin's work on sleepyhead for Apnea patients cannot be overstated.   I would love to speak with him on how to help him continue making improvements or supporting new devices.
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#5
Just throwing this out there, but Apnea Board does own the SleepFiles.com domain, and the ability to run any type of web-based app or database on our server if you all want to use it for that.  Or use some type of cloud service, or whatever.
SuperSleeper
Apnea Board Administrator
www.ApneaBoard.com


INFORMATION ON APNEA BOARD FORUMS OR ON APNEABOARD.COM SHOULD NOT BE CONSIDERED AS MEDICAL ADVICE. ALWAYS SEEK THE ADVICE OF A PHYSICIAN BEFORE SEEKING TREATMENT FOR MEDICAL CONDITIONS, INCLUDING SLEEP APNEA. INFORMATION POSTED ON THE APNEA BOARD WEB SITE AND FORUMS ARE PERSONAL OPINION ONLY AND NOT NECESSARILY A STATEMENT OF FACT.



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#6
In addition, Mark Watkins has the "SleepyHead Testing Forum" here on Apnea Board.  It's a private, invitation-only forum that was used in the past for collaboration and testing of SleepyHead.  Given Mark's health issues, if you want to use that forum for developing a fork, you'd have to meet Mark's criteria (see below), and if you do, simply PM me and I can make you a member of that SleepyHead Testing group that has access to that private forum.   Mark had some criteria that you would have to meet, of course.

Mark hasn't used that forum for several months now, but it's still there if anyone wants to use it for SleepyHead-related development.




jedimark Wrote:In an effort to boost SleepyHead's quality control, future binary builds of SleepyHead will go through a little more rigorous testing by a closed beta group before being publicly released.
 This doesn't mean there won't be any more publicly released binaries until release day, it just means that the steps along the way to an official v1.0.0 release will hopefully be more reliable.
The raw source code of course is still open for anyone who wants to delve into it, or "roll their own" binaries from it.
If you are interested in joining this group, and you meet one of the following criteria, don't hesitate to send Jedimark a request via email.

The Criteria...

1) You regularly track SleepyHead's GIT repository and build from source and have given patches or feedback to help solve bugs.
2) You work on documentation or tutorials for SleepyHead
3) You work (or would like to work) on translating SleepyHead into other languages.
4) You are well versed in the program, regularly help others in the forums, and you know how to give clear, concise bug reports on issues still relevant to the latest testing version, (always stating your Operating System, and your CPAP machine model), along with providing .zip'ed machine data to reproduce the bugs when necessary, to help solve these problems for other users.
5) You've got a genuine interest in SleepyHead, plus have a strong background in mathematics, statistics, programming, waveform analysis, or sleep medicine (ie, your a doctor or researcher), and have the time to participate and bring your technical expertise to discussions about improving this software.

The main condition of staying a group member is that any pre-release test binaries or shared machine data are not to be spread outside the beta group.

Members will have access to a private SleepyHead Testing Forum hosted over on ApneaBoard (thanks SuperSleeper!), where once things are up and running, you will find links to Sleepyhead builds that are updated a lot more frequently, a pool of test data from other CPAP machine types you may not have access to (and are welcome to add to).
Hopefully this extra quality assurance will eventually help reduce the number of SleepyHead bug reports showing up in our favourite forums, leaving them clearer for the much more important work they do.
SuperSleeper
Apnea Board Administrator
www.ApneaBoard.com


INFORMATION ON APNEA BOARD FORUMS OR ON APNEABOARD.COM SHOULD NOT BE CONSIDERED AS MEDICAL ADVICE. ALWAYS SEEK THE ADVICE OF A PHYSICIAN BEFORE SEEKING TREATMENT FOR MEDICAL CONDITIONS, INCLUDING SLEEP APNEA. INFORMATION POSTED ON THE APNEA BOARD WEB SITE AND FORUMS ARE PERSONAL OPINION ONLY AND NOT NECESSARILY A STATEMENT OF FACT.



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#7
(03-09-2017, 09:39 AM)Sleeprider Wrote: The increasing use of machines not supported by Sleepyhead limits its use.

It would really interest me if you could be a more specific on that point. What machines are currently unsupported by SleepyHead that really are used. And by "used" I mean used by more than a handful over the whole world.

----

as for "SH as a Service" ... in my opinion you are undestimating (by far) the processing power used for the waveform analysis on import - next thing is the data: take a look at your SH-Data folder and you get a feeling of what amount of data we are talking about^^ (now imagine just 1.000 people over the world use that service on a daily basis ... and that's not the traffic - that's just the storage-space on the database ... and no service can survive from just 1K visitors^^)

than there is the presentation "problem" of the waveforms ... if you provide some sort of raw (unrendered) data you can zoom on the client, which reduces server requests dramatically, but than you need a device which can actually do that in a reasonable amount of time (and we're talking javascript here^^) ... I suppose there goes the mobile-devices part.
There is a bit more to the fact what limitations the ResMed-Cloud-Service has than just simple "we don't want you to know" Cool

and than there is the security thingy .... it's GPL so it has to stay GPL - making the source of a web service public where data-security really is important is .. well risky (at least) - you should be a hell of a geek before even thinking about it twice. SH runs on a local system - I suppose it was never designed for carefully crafted input-files^^

If you have no WiFi-SD-Card you still need a PC to import to the cloud .... than one could just simply use SH instead.
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#8
Back several months ago Mark changed the licensing structure so that he could (at some point) offer a commercial version of SleepyHead side-by-side with the "free" version. The commercial version supposedly would have more features, or additional support or whatever.    That might be put on hold for now due to his health, however.
SuperSleeper
Apnea Board Administrator
www.ApneaBoard.com


INFORMATION ON APNEA BOARD FORUMS OR ON APNEABOARD.COM SHOULD NOT BE CONSIDERED AS MEDICAL ADVICE. ALWAYS SEEK THE ADVICE OF A PHYSICIAN BEFORE SEEKING TREATMENT FOR MEDICAL CONDITIONS, INCLUDING SLEEP APNEA. INFORMATION POSTED ON THE APNEA BOARD WEB SITE AND FORUMS ARE PERSONAL OPINION ONLY AND NOT NECESSARILY A STATEMENT OF FACT.



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#9
well ... it's his code ... he can change the license at any time to what ever he wants (at least for the parts he created) on the other side everyone can sell sleepyhead in binary form - one just have to make clear that it is based on his free source (but I'm not so in to GPL ... I'm more into the original idea behind the beerware-"license")

anyway it would really be nice if you could elaborate on this - as I think you are one of the few who actually knwo this:


(03-09-2017, 09:39 AM)Sleeprider Wrote: The increasing use of machines not supported by Sleepyhead limits its use.

It would really interest me if you could be a more specific on that point. What machines are currently unsupported by SleepyHead that really are used. And by "used" I mean used by more than a handful over the whole world.
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#10
That was Sleeprider who made that statement, not me (SuperSleeper).

But, in his defence, there are plenty of CPAP machines that SleepyHead does not support.  Pretty sure Mark's intention was to try to provide support for as many as possible by first tackling the "big names" of CPAP manufacturers like ResMed & Philips-Respironics machines, and limited support for DeVilbiss & Fisher & Paykel machines.  I read somewhere that those four companies combined have anywhere between 65-75% of the world-wide CPAP market share.  If those figures are accurate, that still leaves 25-35% of CPAP users left who have a machine not manufactured by the above companies and not currently supported by SleepyHead. 

Here's a list of some major manufacturers of data-capable CPAP machines not currently supported by SleepyHead:

Puritan Bennett
Apex
HDM (Human Design Medical)
BMC 3B Products
AEIOmed
Weinmann

That's still a rather large list of remaining CPAP manufacturers that SleepyHead doesn't currently support.  Agreed, it's not anywhere near the amount that the "big four" supply, but it's still a pretty large group of people.


Coffee
SuperSleeper
Apnea Board Administrator
www.ApneaBoard.com


INFORMATION ON APNEA BOARD FORUMS OR ON APNEABOARD.COM SHOULD NOT BE CONSIDERED AS MEDICAL ADVICE. ALWAYS SEEK THE ADVICE OF A PHYSICIAN BEFORE SEEKING TREATMENT FOR MEDICAL CONDITIONS, INCLUDING SLEEP APNEA. INFORMATION POSTED ON THE APNEA BOARD WEB SITE AND FORUMS ARE PERSONAL OPINION ONLY AND NOT NECESSARILY A STATEMENT OF FACT.



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