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Online version of sleepyhead
#11
That said, I can definitely see the issue you brought up concerning an "online version" of SleepyHead.  I would agree that it could be very problematic when it comes to the required server processor power to do the computations for numerous people around the world at the same time.  Probably the only way to control the spikes would be to put user data in some sort of an online queue to "ration" server resources.

Thinking-about
SuperSleeper
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INFORMATION ON APNEA BOARD FORUMS OR ON APNEABOARD.COM SHOULD NOT BE CONSIDERED AS MEDICAL ADVICE. ALWAYS SEEK THE ADVICE OF A PHYSICIAN BEFORE SEEKING TREATMENT FOR MEDICAL CONDITIONS, INCLUDING SLEEP APNEA. INFORMATION POSTED ON THE APNEA BOARD WEB SITE AND FORUMS ARE PERSONAL OPINION ONLY AND NOT NECESSARILY A STATEMENT OF FACT.



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#12
(03-09-2017, 08:47 PM)SuperSleeper Wrote: That said, I can definitely see  the issue you brought up concerning an "online version" of SleepyHead.  I would agree that it could be very problematic when it comes to the required server processor power to do the computations for numerous people around the world at the same time.  Probably the only way to control the spikes would be to put user data in some sort of an online queue to "ration" server resources.

Thinking-about

With regards to server size - it actually wouldn't require that much horsepower.  Full disclosure - when I'm not lawyering I run a dev shop that deals with AWS and HIPAA compliant files on a daily basis.  I've run this project by my guys, and have a rough idea of difficulty/cost.  

In this case we are dealing with N users per day * 1 data upload per day/week/whatever frequency the user chooses to view their data.  The data is pre-computed on upload and the graph points are fed into <insert graph library> which provides the rendering horsepower which we then beautifully and securely display on the sleepyhead-as-a-service front end.  One could theoretically handle a million requests on a medium-sized AWS server without much difficulty.
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#13
One addition to the above is the newest Devilbiss Intellipap 2 is not compatible, while the older one is. As new models are released, even by the covered manufacturers, there is no assurance that Sleepyhead will be updated to accommodate them. We can always hope.
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#14
With regards to unsupported hardware:  as Supersleeper said, there are numerous current devices that lack support, and it is unclear whether Marks health will allow him to continue work in the future (assumption I have made from a few comments around the board). 

New devices (such as the dreamstation ASV) are not supported until Mark or someone updates the loader plugins, because either the file structure or the naming convention has changed.  In some cases there Is new data to render, or a change in how it was previously handled.  This is a ton of work.  Given the importance of sleepyhead to this community and Apnea sufferers it really makes sense to try to come up with a strategy for future support.
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#15
Getting back to the original question...

Quote:Was just curious whether or not anyone would use an online version of sleepyhead if one existed?  I have been thinking about how nice it would be to have access to my data on a phone, or wherever I was by simply logging in.

Maybe, but like so many cloud-based facilities I think this is probably a solution looking for a problem.

To my mind it would be far more productive to keep updating the core SleepyHead program to accommodate new machines as they come along, rather than the enormous expense (time, energy and cost) of putting it on the "cloud". 

C0mbe Wrote:Given the importance of sleepyhead to this community and Apnea sufferers it really makes sense to try to come up with a strategy for future support.


Yes, I agree entirely. I think this should be the priority.
DeepBreathing
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INFORMATION ON APNEA BOARD FORUMS OR ON APNEABOARD.COM SHOULD NOT BE CONSIDERED AS MEDICAL ADVICE. ALWAYS SEEK THE ADVICE OF A PHYSICIAN BEFORE SEEKING TREATMENT FOR MEDICAL CONDITIONS, INCLUDING SLEEP APNEA. INFORMATION POSTED ON THE APNEA BOARD WEB SITE AND FORUMS ARE PERSONAL OPINION ONLY AND NOT NECESSARILY A STATEMENT OF FACT.
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#16
thanks very much for that list and input of unsupported devices. (and of course I confused you two - sorry for that - just counter in the timezone difference^^)

the absence of JediMark is of course a big problem. I read here for the first time, that there are some plans for a commercial version somewhere on the horizon .. huge bumper (regarding licensing nightmare of forks ... if one writes a loader and therefore has to make adjustments to parts of the core-program and puts it under GPL ... well dunno if dual- or triple-licensing is even possible with GPL ... currently there is this fuzz about the new TOS of github which seem to break GPL-based forks)*.

worst thing that can happen:
a ton of forks coming up - with a "core version" as the lowest common denominator or complete forks - maintenance nightmare on the end-user side ... which version to choose - when to switch!? .. what to do if the oxymeter is supported in fork-X and the xPAP-machine only in fork-Y and they are in no way compatible?

... well on the other hand these are no "new problems" in the open-source world Thinking-about

I'm from germany ... so I have a (complete) different view on the cloud ... medical data is protected anyway under a ton of laws in germany so the hurdles for such a service are that high that it practically cannot be achieved in germany anyway.
But if I would put my data which completely reveals my sleep-patterns (and my illness) in the cloud it has to be ueber-secure - and I really mean ueber-secure as in "noone besides me under no circumstances including court-orders" can access that data.
(and this not a theoretical concern .. if you have a car accident there might be some people really interested in your (compliance) data^^ ... or your employer)

but the main point is: what's the benefit?
honestly: who is tracking their sleep on a daily basis and wants to access that very information from multiple devices at any time anywhere? sure there might be some - but to what end? (this can't be healthy behavior)

What really would help - especially here on the forum or with doctors:
a possibilty to show a given timespan in an easy manner - not just screenshots or some rendered reports - but the whole waveform magic.
that would be ueber-awesome. (and I suppose really helpful)

solution: data-exporter in sleepyhead, where one can chosse the timeframe - totally anonymous.
either that (as a single file / direct upload) can than be "shown" in sleepyhead without all the "create a profile / store it for eternity on the disk / etc" OR:
make a webservice for just that^^ <--- That might actually be helping and have a "market"

kill 2 birds with one stone (or more like a swarm):
no more really sensitive data as it is anonymously uploaded
no more processing power needed as all the statistics are precalculated during the export in SH
no more nagging the overwhelmed user with screen that, screen this - you're doing it wrong - one click - the others can look on the interesting parts themselves
no more "licensing" nightmare - only the exporter may need to be Open-source (if jedimark starts using the plugin-thingy not even that is needed) - what ever goes around on the server side is than noone's concern

taking the experience from one-click-hosters it would even be possible to achieve some kind of data sovereignty - just provide a "delete link during upload" and auto delete old stuff which hasn't been accessed during a while. - problem solved.

*just my few cents*

* as I'm working on a weinmann/löwenstein-loader (currently just Somno-Series .. Prisma-Series planned) that actually concerns me, as I had to teach SH the difference between an obstructive and a clear airway hypopnea ... and than there was the change of the webengine in the newer QT-versions ... all in all changes in the core-program besides just the loader (which of course rely on each other).
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#17
You bring up some good points - my primary goal for an online version was for two real reasons:

(1) Portability of my Apnea data without having to lug around physical paperwork or create native versions for devices (which you then have to worry about how you transfer the data back and forth).  

(2) To provide an easier method to update the software in the future: any changes to the core are instantly pushed to all users.  It's cleaner, and from a user standpoint less of a hassle.  

You do bring up one thing I hadn't thought about:  compliance with not just US health data compliance requirements (HIPAA) but also attempting to comply as many countries data laws as possible.  You are correct that incorrectly storing and securing data could bring up a legal nightmare for users.  

TBMx Do you by any chance have a statute I could take a look at re: German health storage?  I would love to compare with HIPAA and see if there is a work around.  

Your data exported is an interesting solve for the portability issue.  One could just create a snapshot of your current data, or a range of data including waveforms and export to the local or online location of your choice.  In the US Dropbox and Box can be HIPPA compliant so there is no risk of the above issues.
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#18
in germany there is 1. the "Bundesdatenschutzgesetz" (our privacy law) than there are some regulations in the "Telemediengesetz" (a totally outdated law that tries to regulate the internet-thingies)
than we have "Sozialgesetzbuch X" - the privacy laws regarding social and health data (our law-books covering all the social insurance thingies - yes, it's book 10 - we have plenty of social coverage)

short thing is: medical data is really protected by the law! (i.e. in germany a doctor has a very strict pledge of secrecy - even a court can not simply put that away - even the patient itself simply cannot legally say do whatever you want with my health-data)
there is even a discussion as to which point fitness-trackers are totally compliant with these laws. (it's not as our laws are in any way ready for the internet-age ... take Whatsapp as an example: if you are strict with the law that app is illegal! - I simply don't have the right to share the phonenumbers of my contacts with someone else - especially not transfer it overseas and let it be processed there - nearly everyone uses it anyway^^)

having said that: don't care too much about that stuff - if you are a "over sea" / US based enitity you have nothing really to do with germany or german law^^

My point was not so much the actual law as more: what does the user expect. I grew up with that security regarding my health data - it's only my concern and that of my doctor - besides that noone has a (legal) way of obtaining this informations ... I would expect the same from any given service.

EDIT: as far as your 2. point about the updates go: SleepyHead has an auto-Updater ... the problem is not getting the updates - it's: doing the updates.
with "SHaaS" you have a single point of failure: the Service. If it goes down - out of "business" or whatever everything is lost.
If jedimark just throws in the towel nothing really changes - it's open-source - compile it yourself - change the code - distribute this or new binaries ... the thing lives on.

that's all in all the beauty and idea behind open-source. Opensource does not stand for "free as in beer (or maybe "air" for the US-folks)" it's more a free for engeneering approach - build upon that - build around that - all that matters is: keep driving the development further (and publish that so that others can do the same and biuld upon that).
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#19
I suspect that a third party cannot access the health data because of strict privacy laws, but that the actual patient can do with it what they please.  There is usually a distinction between the two, even if on its face it's prohibited re: WhatsApp.  The real issue would be the storage medium and whether they comply with German laws.  

I'm still going to look.  Even if the local client is updated and we forget online, it may still effect the portability depending on what service you connect with.
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#20
Another part of this with a lot of value are the large numbers of people that are not using computers, but instead rely on tablets and smartphones. I can see the day coming where an application that requires a computer is an anachronism. We already see a number of members who have to use a work computer, or borrow one from a family member. The day is not very far out where even this forum is going to have to concede that mobile devices are prevalent.
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