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Online version of sleepyhead
#31
sometimes one have to read it to really understand it:


import thingy on "modern" tablets: simply use a micro-SD in an SD-adapter .... plug the card - plug the micro-card put in the tablet ... problem solved. (Or are there really any tablets without micro-Sd-Slots?)

Thinking-about  android / ios version is making more and more sense Dielaughing Huhsign
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#32
We would see an android version before an IOS due to apple's ridiculous criteria on what can be served from the app store. Tablet version was being talked about last year. We'll see when Mark picks up the keyboard again to work on it.


Using FlashAir W-03 SD card in machine. Access through wifi with FlashPAP or Sleep Master utilities.

I wanted to learn Binary so I enrolled in Binary 101. I seemed to have missed the first four courses. Big Grinnie

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#33
(03-10-2017, 10:50 AM)TBMx Wrote: sometimes one have to read it to really understand it:


import thingy on "modern" tablets: simply use a micro-SD in an SD-adapter .... plug the card - plug the micro-card put in the tablet ... problem solved. (Or are there really any tablets without micro-Sd-Slots?)

Thinking-about  android / ios version is making more and more sense Dielaughing Huhsign

The problem with that is, if you aren't on certain android devices you need an external SD reader, or you can transfer your files to a micro SD.  That's a pain for the user and at that point you might as well use a computer.    

Secondly, iOS doesn't have a file system so storage on device is problematic.  You can use iCloud Drive or another storage option, but that's not ideal and you run into the same concerns TBMx identified.  

I am not an Android user, but 60% of the world is - I am averaging, because North American android/iOS usage is closer to parity than Europe of the rest of the world.    Either way, to just focus on Android is to leave out a significant number of users.  I think App Store fears are overrated.  It's not hard to get your  in, but point to android for side loading.

Responsive web app solves all these issues.
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#34
I don't have a mac or any kind of I-Device ... but seriuosly no storage space on the device ... where does whatsapp and stuff like that store the tons of pics / vids you receive all day? (in the cloud can't be really a solution as one doesn't have always cell/wifi coverage) ... how is in that world new content put into this devices?

are there really tablets out in the real market without any kind of micro-sd-reader? here in europe even the very-cheap-I-can-do-nothing tablets have a micro-sd-slot. ... once you load it into any kind of device the user can use his own cloud-storage (personal cloud / dropbox / onedrive / googledrive / or whatever) to exchange the data with .... yeah with what actually? between different mobile devices?

as I already said or asked: are there really people out there who need their sleep-data at hand at any given time? and is this behavior still healthy? (and on the other site: does it really make sense - from the perspective of the reason behind this forum - to support such people in such behavior?)

but thanks to AlanE I found the old thread from 2014 where JediMark said, that he could imagine a paid version for Android / IOS to keep on doing further developments. ... dunno if that is possible with the "free" version of QT - but in the end I suppose more revenue could be generated with an ad-supported version than just a 1-time-payment - and I believe the ads would be more accepted than paying.

If this is still his plan ... ?
I respect that anyway and solely based on that statement I personally would never release a version which cuts this possible revenue stream (for him).

Having said that. I'm no longer sure what are we talking about here?
Is this about: helping people to get a (easier) way to see their xPAP-data and improve the treatment - which might be an inconvenient way? (I would really prefer this!)
or are we talking about: possible market-shares and a way to take the SH-source and turn it into profit? (which would be simply crud)

well now I made it a rhetorical question....


EDIT: couldn't wrap my head around the thing that on IOS there is no way of data-storage (maybe I totally misunderstood you - sorry if so)

it's - of course - no problem to store data on IOS-devices ... even to exclude them from the iCloud / automatic BackUps.
SD- / Micro-SD-Readers come as cheap as 5€ / $
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#35
I don't think anyone has ever offered Mark this kind of firepower to develop and expand his project. I sure hope you can contact him, I'd think he would be delighted.
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#36
(03-10-2017, 02:38 PM)TBMx Wrote: I don't have a mac or any kind of I-Device ... but seriuosly no storage space on the device ... where does whatsapp and stuff like that store the tons of pics / vids you receive all day? (in the cloud can't be really a solution as one doesn't have always cell/wifi coverage) ... how is in that world new content put into this devices?

are there really tablets out in the real market without any kind of micro-sd-reader? here in europe even the very-cheap-I-can-do-nothing tablets have a micro-sd-slot. ... once you load it into any kind of device the user can use his own cloud-storage (personal cloud / dropbox / onedrive / googledrive / or whatever) to exchange the data with .... yeah with what actually? between different mobile devices?

as I already said or asked: are there really people out there who need their sleep-data at hand at any given time? and is this behavior still healthy? (and on the other site: does it really make sense - from the perspective of the reason behind this forum - to support such people in such behavior?)

but thanks to AlanE I found the old thread from 2014 where JediMark said, that he could imagine a paid version for Android / IOS to keep on doing further developments. ... dunno if that is possible with the "free" version of QT - but in the end I suppose more revenue could be generated with an ad-supported version than just a 1-time-payment - and I believe the ads would be more accepted than paying.

If this is still his plan ... ?
I respect that anyway and solely based on that statement I personally would never release a version which cuts this possible revenue stream (for him).

Having said that. I'm no longer sure what are we talking about here?
Is this about: helping people to get a (easier) way to see their xPAP-data and improve the treatment - which might be an inconvenient way? (I would really prefer this!)
or are we talking about: possible market-shares and a way to take the SH-source and turn it into profit? (which would be simply crud)

well now I made it a rhetorical question....


EDIT: couldn't wrap my head around the thing that on IOS there is no way of data-storage (maybe I totally misunderstood you - sorry if so)

it's - of course - no problem to store data on IOS-devices ... even to exclude them from the iCloud / automatic BackUps.
SD- / Micro-SD-Readers come as cheap as 5€ / $

iDevices:  
There is storage on iDevices, but the on-device file structure is quite difficult to work with. There is no expandable storage.  Android for sure is a step forward and behaves much more like its pc counterpart.  WhatsApp stores a local cache, but the amount is limited.  WhatsApp backs up the user data to iCloud where you can access the non-cached data, and restore from a backup.    

Sleep Data Use/Portability:  
I think that generally speaking folks do NOT need their sleep data at all times, nor do I believe it be healthy to be constantly checking the data on a mobile device (but who am I to judge  Dont-know). The real issue here (in my mind) is adequately supporting data portability (of which there currently is limited capability), and supporting mobile as a primary device as well as a laptop/desktop.  The goal here is to give as many users the benefit of sleepyhead as possible for free.  Period.    

Mobile Devices as a Primary Device: 
You may think of mobile devices as an edge case, but very soon it will be the primary use case for daily computing.   Being in my mid-30s, I am on the cusp of being a part of a mobile only generation.  My wife actively tries to avoid computers except when necessary, my kids do not understand what a keyboard and mouse are, they understand touchscreen and mobile devices.  I have some friends who have completely moved to mobile devices because they don't need or want to use a computer.  That generation is aging and when more of them start using PAP devices, a local app limited to a laptop or a desktop will not be sufficient in my opinion for meeting the primary use case.   

I am confused for why you think Apnea Board should not encourage sleepyhead development (whether it be local, mobile, or online as a service).  I may be wrong, but I don't know what better purpose Apnea Board could stand for than being an exceptional educational site for weary apnea patients that also empowering them to take command of their therapy using the latest and greatest software on their device of choice, and using it for whatever purpose they choose.  I hardly think its appropriate for Apnea Board or any site for that matter to be making decisions that effect how patients use their own data unless it interferes with Apnea Boards status as an educational site.    

My motivation:  
I know monetization has been tossed around in this thread a lot, but my motivation is to help provide sleepyhead to as many apnea patients as possible under the GPL, and to help drive development forward on sleepyhead or another patient driven software package.  Doctors and device manufacturers aren't going to give us access to Airview or Encore Anywhere, and its up to us to keep momentum going on our side.  

I would also never interfere with Mark's ability to monetize his work as a mobile app.  If he still intends to do that, then my stance would be to provide help in anyway I can.    This thread was started with the aim of progressing the software not monetizing it for my own benefit.
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#37
I apologize to you - I really didn't want to imply all that. Please keep in mind, that english is not my native tongue - so I might phrase some things other than I meant them - also I might understand things completely different than they were supposed to be understood or meant (or not all^^)

(and I believe of course that apneaboard is one of the few places where development could and should be driven forward - what I was trying to say is: apnea-board should not encourage people to the point where they feel they have to check their sleep-data once an hour^^)

glad to see, that we are all on the same page like (for a happy family only mark is missing^^)

So far I'm not really convinced - all in all - that SleepyHead as a service is a good idea.
Mobile support has to come - better sooner than later - I think this is out of the question.

In my personal opinion after reading a few minutes up on QT-licensing stuff I believe that an ad-supported version (no matter the device) is no problem at all. Changing the license of Qt to a comercial one might be really expensive - given the time jedimark already developed this.
Anyway - a mobile version needs a major rewrite of the UI. .. can be done - and should be done.

BUT: (there has to be a but^^)
anything regarding mobile stuff should be up to jedimarks decision. If he has plans for a revenue stream he should really use that!
SH is really awesome - there are so many things he thought of and did himself with a lot of work ... and as far as I can tell from the code he has planned a lot more to come.
Alone the data-decoding is a pain in the ass. All I - so far - did was completing the weinmann-loader he already started. To be honest he did all the hard work - I had such a good starting position, that the main work for me was wrapping my head around SleepyHead and QT. .... took me nevertheless days after days of starring at raw-hex-data until I could see the actual information below all that.

The work he simply put in there should - no! - needs to be honored accordingly.

And in my opinion this closes the door for any mobile-version for the time beeing.

But: ( Huhsign there's another but)
this does not close the door for the online-data-(re)viewer^^

Exporter in Sleepyhead to a JSON-format is nothing too complicated. (XML has to much processing overhead in my opinion - but anything is good^^)
"Simple"-Webapp (as in browser) for showing that data might also be not that hard. ... most of the code from jedimark can be translated to javascript and be drawn on a canvas - there are the cool waveforms.

As only some graphs are important for interpretation the amount of data should be within limits - for a reasonable timespan selected (days not moths or years) .
(if the data is "zipped" and transferred to the server and also "zipped" back to the browser even traffic or processing power is not so much the issue - the server would than simply act as a 1-click-hoster ... it's not like 1K people will stare at the same waveforms ... delete them after 4(?) weeks or on demand^^)

The "derived" graphs might even be calculated on client-side in the browser on demand. (might take a while - but there is always a trade off^^)

.. spinning this single idea further: next useful thingy could be a "comment-function" on the waveform - I think of something like soundcloud has - there you can pinpoint a comment to a given point in the waveform.

like

on the other hand: simply just don't show this "online" but take that "exported data" and make also an importer which just shows that very data in sleepyhead (without storing it for eternity and creating a mess of user-profiles)

I can loose myself in such things Too-funny

Would be really interesting to hear on this thoughts from Sleeprider and the ones actually doing the interpretation and helping.
What is it that you really would like to have and see in order to even better and easier (also for you) help us all?

(done editing^^)
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#38
Actually I didn't take offense at all. I hope you didn't either! I am a firm believer that spirited discussion on these topics brings about the most creative solutions that benefit us all.

Totally agree that it is Mark's decision to monetize or not. I don't want to take that away from him at all. I actually have started the process of reaching out to him primarily to figure out his intent for the future. I wouldn't do anything without his blessing.
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#39
Your last bold sentence is an excellent question. One could automatically configure the ui to show what would be the most beneficial.
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#40
If we get as far as identifying what information is a priority, I'll be glad to add my input. There are gems throughout the data, and some untapped statistics and correlations that can interpret results. The line any software like this should not cross is to "recommend" any changes or change any machine data, in fact the Sleepyhead splash screen that interprets the latest results as "pretty darn good" or "terrible, call you doctor", is something I would not continue.
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