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Open mouth and fullmask issues....
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woozie38 Offline

Advisory Members

Posts: 248
Joined: Jan 2013

Machine: Fisher & Paykel Icon + Auto
Mask Type: Full face mask
Mask Make & Model: F&P Simplus
Humidifier: Integral
CPAP Pressure: 8 to 14
CPAP Software: SleepyHead Other Software

Other Comments: 17 years of CPAP + supp. oxygen @ 3 L/min

Sex: Male
Location: Toowoomba, Queensland Australia

Post: #11
RE: Open mouth and fullmask issues....
Quote:I definitely get a dry mouth if I mouth breath while in my FFM, even with the humidity set to it's highest level. I found that if I push the mask up to where it overlaps my bottom lip I tend to mouth breath a lot less. Mask is a Simplus FFM.

Hi Ed, My experiences seems to indicate that mouth breathing under an FFM is of itself not a problem, but if combined with mask leaks, than it is. Mask leaks occur as the APAP pressure rises due to airway restriction or blockage & this is usually the result of sleeping "supine" or on one's back. Leaving aside sleeping position, I use a Simpus mask and have designed a device which I've called the "Woozle". With a Simplus, pushing the mask upward is not a good thing to do because the mask then rides higher on the bridge of the nose where the nose is at its narrowest. This will cause air to leak into the eyes which is problematic. My Woozle draws the mask downward to where the nose's bridge is wider, which achieves a much better seal. In my opinion, there is no way to prevent mask leaks caused by a supine sleep position. The APAP will rise & the mask will leak. My woozle will however stop a lot of leaks. The instructions on how to make one are out of date, but if you PM me I can send you an updated version.
Best of luck,

[Image: signature.png]Keep on breathin'
07-30-2015 10:46 PM
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eseedhouse Offline

Advisory Members

Posts: 878
Joined: Dec 2014

Machine: ResMed Airsense 10 Autoset
Mask Type: Full face mask
Mask Make & Model: SimPlus
Humidifier: ResMed
CPAP Pressure: 7-10
CPAP Software: SleepyHead

Other Comments: Also on supplemental O2 at 3L/min. while sleeping.

Sex: Male
Location: Victoria, British Columbia

Post: #12
RE: Open mouth and fullmask issues....
(07-30-2015 10:46 PM)woozie38 Wrote:  Hi Ed, My experiences seems to indicate that mouth breathing under an FFM is of itself not a problem, but if combined with mask leaks, than it is.... With a Simplus, pushing the mask upward is not a good thing to do because the mask then rides higher on the bridge of the nose where the nose is at its narrowest. This will cause air to leak into the eyes which is problematic.

Well it's definitely not leaks, which do occur but only for a few seconds and rarely more than a minute at most. The machine gives me a nice smiley face on that one as does the "myair" site.

I find that I can adjust the silicon at the top so that leaks at the top don't happen either. It does take a few minutes of fiddling but I've been successful so far.

My mouth still does drop open sometimes and I can tell when I wake up because my mouth is definitely dry when that happens. Eventualy I might try a chin strap or mask but for now I'm coping fine.

I have the humidifier set on auto these days but even when I ran it full out to the point of condensation in the hose I still get a dry mouth. Maybe I'm not supposed to, but I do. We are all different, and all the same.

Ed Seedhouse
VA7SDH

I am neither a Doctor, nor any other kind of medical professional.

Actually you know, it is what it isn't.
(This post was last modified: 07-30-2015 11:11 PM by eseedhouse.)
07-30-2015 11:11 PM
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tommyngo Offline

Preferred Members

Posts: 34
Joined: Jul 2015

Machine: Resmed Airsense 10 Autoset
Mask Type: Nasal mask
Mask Make & Model: Resmed Mirage FX Nasal Mask
Humidifier: Included with machine
CPAP Pressure: 5 - 20 cm H2O Auto
CPAP Software: ResScan

Other Comments:

Sex: Male
Location:

Post: #13
RE: Open mouth and fullmask issues....
On my 4th day on the APAP machine, I still woke up twice last night and did not feel fresh in the morning . In fact, I felt worse with the machine !! The AHI was 18.2 ( from a baseline of 29.7 before treatment . the previuos 3 nights, the AHI were 20, 12, 18 respectively ) .

My issue is the air entered my mouth ( i.e. full mask) , enlarged the cheeks and caused leaks around the face mask with accompanied flapping noise of mask seal around the mouth . These combined incidents woke me up . They were particularly bad in the early morning ( i.e. 4:30 AM to 6:00 AM ) . At the same time, I felt the air pressure on my face ( which was on automatic control for a range from 5 - 20 cm H2O ) . I had to open the mask and re-adjust it several times before I could go back to sleep .

I wonder if my case is typical for a first time user ? Please comment and advise before I lose hope with my ResMed Airsense 10 . Thanks .
08-01-2015 09:01 AM
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iSnore Offline

Preferred Members-2

Posts: 148
Joined: Apr 2015

Machine: Phillips-Respironics DS560TS REMstar Auto
Mask Type: Nasal pillows
Mask Make & Model: ResMed AirFit P10
Humidifier: Phillips-Respironics DS6T Heated Tube
CPAP Pressure: 9-13 A-Flex 2
CPAP Software: SleepyHead EncoreBasic

Other Comments: SYSTEM ONE resistance set to X1 for P10

Sex: Male
Location:

Post: #14
RE: Open mouth and fullmask issues....
Like you, last night was my fourth night on CPAP, and I awoke twice aware my lips were open (and fixed that) but the leak was minimal to none, and that's with nasal pillows. I have to attribute that, and much of my success, to something called "tongue vacuum" which I picked up from a post by one of the ladies here. It seems counter-intuitive, but placing my tongue in the roof of my mouth, and applying suction to it, it stays there while I'm nose breathing, even with pressure as high as 11 cm, the max I've seen, even while sleeping. You might give it a try.
(This post was last modified: 08-01-2015 10:54 AM by iSnore.)
08-01-2015 10:53 AM
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PaytonA Offline
Wiki Editor
Monitors

Posts: 3,005
Joined: Dec 2013

Machine: ResMed S9 VPAP Auto
Mask Type: Full face mask
Mask Make & Model: Resmed Mirage Quattro
Humidifier: H5i(distilled-top up)
CPAP Pressure: VAuto MinE14.0 MaxI 20.6 PS4.0
CPAP Software: ResScan SleepyHead

Other Comments:

Sex: Male
Location: Orange County,California

Post: #15
RE: Open mouth and fullmask issues....
I have tried vacuuming with my tongue........but the carpet keeps getting damp. Leaves a bad taste and leads to dry mouth too. Big Grin
08-01-2015 01:16 PM
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PaulaO2 Offline
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Moderators

Posts: 8,065
Joined: Feb 2012

Machine: S9 Autoset
Mask Type: Full face mask
Mask Make & Model: F&P Simplus
Humidifier: H5i
CPAP Pressure: 14-20
CPAP Software: SleepyHead

Other Comments: Ehlers-Danlos Syndrome, Hypermobility Type; chronic sarcasm

Sex: Undisclosed
Location: western NC, USA

Post: #16
RE: Open mouth and fullmask issues....
CPAP use is not an instant cure. It can take "a while" for results to be noticed. This is because your body and brain have to get used to everything in addition to enjoying the sleep they are finally getting. Some of us, our bodies enjoy the sleep too much and we feel more tired than before! But this is normal. Keep at it.

You can't look at the data for every night and say X is going on. You have to look at data over several nights. You are looking for trends. There are so many variables that go into a good or bad night's sleep. So we gather data and we look at the overall picture, not just a night or two.

Since you are starting out, those numbers are going to be crazy for a while. And that's fine! Totally normal! Feel free to ignore them, actually, for the first two weeks. Instead, focus more on the mask. Yes, the air hitting your face and blowing your mouth open is common. It gets better with time. What you can do is sit up with it on during the day and get acclimatized to it. Wear the mask with the machine on while reading or watching television. It won't get as high pressure as when you are sleeping but it will give you a chance to still feel it.

I am assuming the doc has it set to "wide open" as a way to determine your treatment pressure. Once he/she has that figured out and narrows down the range, some of that weird sensation and mouth getting blown open will ease up quickly. Until then, you can try a chin strap or make your own out of an ACE bandage. You want it tight enough to hold your mouth shut yet not so tight you cannot chew without effort.

PaulaO2
Apnea Board Moderator
www.ApneaBoard.com


Breathe deeply and count to zen.

INFORMATION ON APNEA BOARD FORUMS OR ON APNEABOARD.COM SHOULD NOT BE CONSIDERED AS MEDICAL ADVICE. ALWAYS SEEK THE ADVICE OF A PHYSICIAN BEFORE SEEKING TREATMENT FOR MEDICAL CONDITIONS, INCLUDING SLEEP APNEA. INFORMATION POSTED ON THE APNEA BOARD WEB SITE AND FORUMS ARE PERSONAL OPINION ONLY AND NOT NECESSARILY A STATEMENT OF FACT.
08-01-2015 04:44 PM
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tommyngo Offline

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Posts: 34
Joined: Jul 2015

Machine: Resmed Airsense 10 Autoset
Mask Type: Nasal mask
Mask Make & Model: Resmed Mirage FX Nasal Mask
Humidifier: Included with machine
CPAP Pressure: 5 - 20 cm H2O Auto
CPAP Software: ResScan

Other Comments:

Sex: Male
Location:

Post: #17
RE: Open mouth and fullmask issues....
(08-01-2015 10:53 AM)iSnore Wrote:  ..... but placing my tongue in the roof of my mouth, and applying suction to it, it stays there while I'm nose breathing..

Thanks for an excellent tip ! I tried this technique last night and it was quite effective in my case ! Hope it gets better with practice .Thanks

Best regards,
(This post was last modified: 08-02-2015 01:07 PM by tommyngo.)
08-02-2015 01:01 PM
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tommyngo Offline

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Posts: 34
Joined: Jul 2015

Machine: Resmed Airsense 10 Autoset
Mask Type: Nasal mask
Mask Make & Model: Resmed Mirage FX Nasal Mask
Humidifier: Included with machine
CPAP Pressure: 5 - 20 cm H2O Auto
CPAP Software: ResScan

Other Comments:

Sex: Male
Location:

Post: #18
RE: Open mouth and fullmask issues....
[quote='PaulaO2' pid='124712' dateline='1438465456']

Thanks PaulaO2 for all these wonderful comments . I 'll keep on trying for another few weeks and see .. Thanks
(This post was last modified: 08-02-2015 01:08 PM by tommyngo.)
08-02-2015 01:07 PM
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Shastzi Offline

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Posts: 1,174
Joined: Dec 2012

Machine: ResMed S9 Autoset
Mask Type: Full face mask
Mask Make & Model: FitLife Total face mask
Humidifier: F&P HC150 with Hybernite heated hose.
CPAP Pressure: 15cm-20cm H2O (auto)
CPAP Software: SleepyHead Other Software

Other Comments: CMS50-F wearable Oximeter; Software: SPO2 Assistant

Sex: Undisclosed
Location: Florida, USA.

Post: #19
RE: Open mouth and fullmask issues....
Hi Tommy,

I would suggest as your next goal to start posting your ResScan charts here or
getting SleepyHead going and posting the S.H. charts here so folks can help you get that thing dialed in.

The machine needs to be *optimised* to your dynamics.
Something the Docs usually don't want to take the extra time to do.
(Here is your machine, just use it. Now get lost! Next PLEASE!)

Not all docs are this way. We have a few here that are exceptionally good!
Smile

So... it becomes *your* job to make sure YOU get the best therapy for yourself.
This is where apneaboard comes in.

It's even easier than programming your VCR!
Smile

"With ordinary talent and extraordinary perseverance, all things are attainable." - Thomas Foxwell Buxton

Cool
08-02-2015 06:47 PM
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tommyngo Offline

Preferred Members

Posts: 34
Joined: Jul 2015

Machine: Resmed Airsense 10 Autoset
Mask Type: Nasal mask
Mask Make & Model: Resmed Mirage FX Nasal Mask
Humidifier: Included with machine
CPAP Pressure: 5 - 20 cm H2O Auto
CPAP Software: ResScan

Other Comments:

Sex: Male
Location:

Post: #20
RE: Open mouth and fullmask issues....
[quote='Shastzi' pid='124865' dateline='1438559221']

Thanks for the encouragement ! I was still woken up a few times on my 5th night on the APAP machine due to episodes of open mouth breathing under the full mask .

I'll try a chin strap and mouth tapes to see if the conditions improve .
So far , I feel worse off than before using the machine due to frequent wake-ups !

I am wondering if people on CPAP really have uninterrupted sleep seesions of 6 or 7 hours per night after a few weeks adapting to the machine conditioned environment ?

Please inform. Thanks .
08-03-2015 08:31 AM
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