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PVCs and centrals?
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PaulaO2 Offline
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Post: #1
PVCs and centrals?
I was just wondering if any of you who have PVCs (premature ventricular contractions) have noticed if on nights you have a bad "chest thuddy" night, if your central event numbers go up?

I had a bad night the other night. Didn't feel well. PVCs were happening regularly. I tried going to bed but after 45 mins, I got up. By 4:30 I was tired enough I tried it again I slept until 10 or so, woke up feeling great! Went to bathroom and went back to sleep for I think 2hrs. Woke up feeling just as good. I was relieved because I was afraid I was starting another round of PVC days, which I hate.

Anyway, looked at the data for the week and during that "night", I had an AHI of 6.61. The OI was 1.84 but the CI was 4.28!

Could the numerous PVCs, which can thicken the blood, cause an odd CO2 reading which would increase the CI? I've had nights where the CI was higher than the OI but never this big of a difference.

I am not concerned about it really, and of course I understand one night is not a trend, I'm just curious if there's any kind of connection between the two. I'm starting a sleep journal for the month of February. It will be interesting to see if I have another night like that.

PaulaO2
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02-02-2015 01:39 AM
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Ghost1958 Offline

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Post: #2
RE: PVCs and centrals?
I used to have PVCs on a daily basis and had Afib as well. Even had an ablation to stop them but it was botched and a hole punched thru my heart from the inside by one of the probes so that ended that.

Cpap stopped the Afib and the PVCs except the ones that I rarely have due to eating something I shouldnt and having a hiatial hernia ( yeah i know I cant spell it).

Anyway that will gas me up and puts pressure on my heart which will cause them until the pressure is off.

I havent noticed CAs causing PVCs or even higher AHi numbers under 5. Not saying it couldnt cuz PVCs seem to trigger of all sorts of stuff. Stress, to much coffee, being to tired, or seemingly noting at all so I suppose CAs could as well, I just never have had them too myself.
02-02-2015 02:04 AM
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quiescence at last Offline

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Post: #3
RE: PVCs and centrals?
@PaulaO2 - you may have something with regard to thickening and blood CO2, and tricking the CNS into thinking there is too little CO2 - translating to "there is too much oxygen exchange, stop or slow the breathing". google +PEEP and +nih. -always add nih so you get the good studies. I have been reading more about the mechanisms that can cause some of us high CA specifically in REM sleep. Fascinating.

Sleep well.

QAL


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Dedicated to QALity sleep.
You'll note I am listed as an Advisory Member. I am honored to be listed as such. See the fine print - Advisory Members as a group provide advice and suggestions to Apnea Board administrators and staff concerning Apnea Board operation and administrative policies. Membership in the Advisory Member group should not be understood as in any way implying medical expertise or qualification for advising Sleep Apnea patients concerning their treatment.
02-02-2015 05:56 AM
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justMongo Offline

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Post: #4
RE: PVCs and centrals?
I think any sustained arrhythmia will reduce blood flow; and with that lessen the rate of blood gas exchange in the lungs.
As for it being a function of "thickening," which is to say that the pooling of blood tends to clot, I don't think that the cause of an increase in CA.
Paula, I do hope they have you on anticoagulants to prevent embolism.

INFORMATION ON APNEA BOARD FORUMS OR ON APNEABOARD.COM SHOULD NOT BE CONSIDERED AS MEDICAL ADVICE. ALWAYS SEEK THE ADVICE OF A PHYSICIAN BEFORE SEEKING TREATMENT FOR MEDICAL CONDITIONS, INCLUDING SLEEP APNEA. INFORMATION POSTED ON THE APNEA BOARD WEB SITE AND FORUMS ARE PERSONAL OPINION ONLY AND NOT NECESSARILY A STATEMENT OF FACT.
(This post was last modified: 02-02-2015 10:49 AM by justMongo.)
02-02-2015 10:48 AM
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PaulaO2 Offline
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Post: #5
RE: PVCs and centrals?
I just found it odd that the night I felt so "thumpy" that I had such a high CI. I'll be keeping track of it and will let y'all know if it happens again.

And no, I'm not on any specific medication for it. I take Magnesium Glycinate (100mg x3) and aspirin. My PVCs were scattered, hard to find, until we were adjusting my thyroid medication. We got it so my thyroid levels were perfect for the first time ever but all of a sudden, my heart beat was crazy. Did the Holter monitor thing and the report confirmed the PVCs. Groups of 3, well over a 1000 in the 24hr period, etc. On a hunch, my doc backed off on the medication and the PVCs dropped. But they've never gone back to being scattered. I can go weeks and feel just fine then for whatever reason, they'll hit me like a ton o' bricks for a few days or more. My thyroid level will just have to never be "normal" we reckon.

Actually, the reason I went to the doc with the concern was I put on the oximeter and used the SpO2 Viewer software and watched my heart skip beats. Nothing is funner than watching your heartbeat flat line! Even now, if I feel "thumpy", I'll hook myself up and watch it, just for gits and shiggles. Yeah, I'm weird. We've established that.

PaulaO2
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Breathe deeply and count to zen.

INFORMATION ON APNEA BOARD FORUMS OR ON APNEABOARD.COM SHOULD NOT BE CONSIDERED AS MEDICAL ADVICE. ALWAYS SEEK THE ADVICE OF A PHYSICIAN BEFORE SEEKING TREATMENT FOR MEDICAL CONDITIONS, INCLUDING SLEEP APNEA. INFORMATION POSTED ON THE APNEA BOARD WEB SITE AND FORUMS ARE PERSONAL OPINION ONLY AND NOT NECESSARILY A STATEMENT OF FACT.
02-02-2015 11:14 AM
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PsychoMike Offline

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Post: #6
RE: PVCs and centrals?
I think it is another instance of individual cases, Paula. Mrs. Psycho has palpitations and PVC's on a regular basis, but surprisingly, on her worst days, she seems to do better. Maybe it just gives her other things to concentrate on (counting beats instead of counting sheep) rather than all the other stuff in her head that keeps her awake at night...but I haven't seen any big jumps on "thumper" nights.

As for being wierd....nah, you're not that far gone yet. If you were, you'd call yourself "psycho" Wink Big Grin
02-02-2015 12:39 PM
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eseedhouse Offline

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Post: #7
RE: PVCs and centrals?
I was having PVC's at bedtime on my machine and that made it hard to get to sleep. A home oximetry showed low O2 levels (below 90 most of the night). They put me on oxygen 3 liters per minute and right after that the bedtime PVC's cleared up. My AHI's have remained low (generally below 1) since starting CPCP therapy.

PVC's are nothing new to me as I've had them since my late twenties. Somehow the old ticker kept going though and here I am at 70.

Ed Seedhouse
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02-02-2015 02:35 PM
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Ghost1958 Offline

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Post: #8
RE: PVCs and centrals?
Actually a PVC isnt a skipped beat. Its a out of time beat with the artriums that occurs to quick before the ventricles have filled.

They are aggravating but unless your running a 2 beats PVC 2 beats PVC for hours steadily they really pose no real danger.

Except in the case they are a symptom of afib which you cant feel. In Afib your atriums can be beating 100 beats min and your vents 60. Sometimes that will cause PVCs sometimes not. The real danger is pooling and possible clotting of blood in the Atriums during Afib. If a clot forms then your Afib suddenly self converts back to normal which is pretty common it blow that clot on thru your heart causing a heart attack or if it passes thru and goes to the brain a stoke.

Paula you may if you havent already be tested for Afib which is tricky because nothing will detect it unless its occurring at the time duration of the test. I had Holter monitors on for a week at a time off and on for several years before it actually caught the Afib instead of just PVCs.

The most common AFib symptom is suddenly feeling very tired. The result of not enough blood flow though you wont feel anything in your chest or pulse like with with a PVC.

Not trying to sound like a know it all cuz I for sure aint that but fought Afib and PVCs for over decade until Im pretty familar with how it all works. And what I used to feel like when Afib would start which was just suddenly very tired and sometimes sleepy.

Only posting all this to you because of the real danger of blood clot forming in your atrium. Usually they will put you on a full strength aspirin a day if your prone to have it to keep your blood thin.
02-03-2015 12:30 AM
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