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Poligrip and mouth breathing
#1
Has anyone tried Poligrip to glue your lips closed to stop mouth breathing with a P10?

I saw this someplace and laughed, I have stopped laughing. Nothing else is working so far, I am considering it. Any one with success? I don't use Poligrip, I have all my teeth still, how do you clean the stuff off?

So far -
1. Respironics Premium Chin Strap doesn't work
2. Ace bandage doesn't work
3. Masking tape doesn't work
4. Surgical Tape doesn't work.
5. Combinations of those doesn't work (surgical tape and chin strap, etc).
6. Will power doesn't work.
7. Cursing doesn't work.
8. Sleeping on sides, back and/or stomach doesn't work.

Not sleeping works, but is probably not the optimum solution.

Cervical collar arrives today - what other methods have I missed?

BTW, just holding my jaw closed doesn't work - my lips open and the air rushes out. Hence the tape and ace bandage attempts - and why I am considering the Poligrip.

Signed,
Desparate in Florida
I am not a Medical professional and I don't play one on the internet.
Started CPAP Therapy April 5, 2016
I'd Rather Be Sleeping
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#2
Persistence is admirable, but just maybe the P10 isn't for you? Anyway, everybody knows that real men use a full face mask!
DeepBreathing
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#3
(05-10-2016, 06:06 AM)DeepBreathing Wrote: Persistence is admirable, but just maybe the P10 isn't for you? Anyway, everybody knows that real men use a full face mask!

Laugh-a-lot

I think I am not a mouth breather, I think the issue is my tongue floats down when I fall asleep and the air silly rushes out through my lips. With the tape it takes a little while for the pressure to build up and the air to find a weak spot in the tape seal to exploit, but it eventually does, and a mighty gush flows through a tiny flaw...

I have tried the F10, in fact I have several of them, and I have not found a way to make them work yet either. That is obviously my fall back position. At a pressure of 10 cm the F10 was pretty nice, and I only had to learn how to get the mask and my pillow to peacefully co-exist while I laid on my side. But, now that I am trying APAP, it likes my pressure up around 14 to 16 mostly and last night it was hovering around 20 for a while. In order to get the F10 to seal above ten I have not found anything that works except to tighten it, which defeats the silicone cushion seals by collapsing them and them I have to tighten the straps more and more - it becomes really uncomfortable.

Hmm, maybe Poligrip around the seal on the F10? Smile
I am not a Medical professional and I don't play one on the internet.
Started CPAP Therapy April 5, 2016
I'd Rather Be Sleeping
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#4
Frank,

I really admire your thorough documentation of your tests. I think you're going to have material for a Wiki when you solve your mouth breathing problem.

I have a couple of very non-scientific suggestions/questions.

1. Do you think a boil-and-bite mouthguard would be helpful to keep your bite and tongue from changing position while you're sleeping?

2. If you were doing okay with keeping your mouth closed at 10.0 cm pressure, do you think that starting with your maximum pressure there and gradually increasing it might help?

I am basing this suggestion on my own experience, where I started off with 7.0 cm pressure and it felt like a gale, but now I'm at 11.0 cm and it feels comfortable, and I am only seeing occasional expiratory mouthbreathing on my graphs.

3. Do you think something like putting a foam wedge under your mattress to elevate it a little bit might help to reduce your required treatment pressure?

4. If you can't solve this problem, does that mean you go to a BIPAP machine?


Re the Poligrip idea, I'd think you want to be able to open your mouth if you need to. Plus, if your tongue is moving forward and letting your mouth fill with air, wouldn't you just end up with a major case of chipmunk-cheeks?

(05-10-2016, 05:59 AM)FrankNichols Wrote: Has anyone tried Poligrip to glue your lips closed to stop mouth breathing with a P10?

I saw this someplace and laughed, I have stopped laughing. Nothing else is working so far, I am considering it. Any one with success? I don't use Poligrip, I have all my teeth still, how do you clean the stuff off?

So far -
1. Respironics Premium Chin Strap doesn't work
2. Ace bandage doesn't work
3. Masking tape doesn't work
4. Surgical Tape doesn't work.
5. Combinations of those doesn't work (surgical tape and chin strap, etc).
6. Will power doesn't work.
7. Cursing doesn't work.
8. Sleeping on sides, back and/or stomach doesn't work.

Not sleeping works, but is probably not the optimum solution.

Cervical collar arrives today - what other methods have I missed?

BTW, just holding my jaw closed doesn't work - my lips open and the air rushes out. Hence the tape and ace bandage attempts - and why I am considering the Poligrip.

Signed,
Desparate in Florida

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#5
(05-10-2016, 07:35 AM)green wings Wrote: Frank,

I really admire your thorough documentation of your tests. I think you're going to have material for a Wiki when you solve your mouth breathing problem.

I have a couple of very non-scientific suggestions/questions.

1. Do you think a boil-and-bite mouthguard would be helpful to keep your bite and tongue from changing position while you're sleeping?

I have no idea, but I appreciate the suggestion/question, and I will get one right away and give it a try!

Quote:2. If you were doing okay with keeping your mouth closed at 10.0 cm pressure, do you think that starting with your maximum pressure there and gradually increasing it might help?

I think I wasn't clear, I was okay at 10 cm with my F10 Full Face Mask, above that the FFM starts getting uncomfortable because I can no longer get it to seal and float on it's cushion, I have to start cranking down the straps tighter and tighter to get a seal as the pressure goes up. At 16 to 18 it is very uncomfortable.

With the P10, my mouth leaks at any pressure, so I need to find a way to make an air tight seal on my pie hole...

Quote:3. Do you think something like putting a foam wedge under your mattress to elevate it a little bit might help to reduce your required treatment pressure?

Dunno, but certainly worth exploring. I will figure out a way to do that - lifting the head end of the bed and try it, if it helps I owe you one!

Quote:4. If you can't solve this problem, does that mean you go to a BIPAP machine?

Well, as good as my Doctor was about wanting to discuss things and being willing to work with me, he seemed to just dismiss the idea that I could not solve the leaking if I tried hard enough - sigh. However, If I try everything I can think of and still can't solve the problem, I will certainly be scheduling another meeting with him to discuss it.

I am not sure BiPAP would help, I expect the high pressure level is required to stop the Apnea events and the low level is just for comfort? But, I have no idea, I have not looked into BiPAP much.

Quote:Re the Poligrip idea, I'd think you want to be able to open your mouth if you need to. Plus, if your tongue is moving forward and letting your mouth fill with air, wouldn't you just end up with a major case of chipmunk-cheeks?

My understanding, and that is just from reading the internet, is that when you glue your lips with the poligrip you can still force your mouth open if you try hard, but then you have to get up and wash your lips and reseal them again, since you broke the seal opening it. Also, some people express concern about vomiting while sleeping. I have never vomited while sleeping - ever. I am not sure this is a problem, or an over abundance of caution. I would suggest that if anyone is reading this and considering various ways of sealing your mouth closed, if you have a history of vomiting, I would STRONGLY suggest against sealing your mouth with tape or poligrip.

It feels like my tongue is dropping down from the roof of my mouth more than it is moving forward. And I think I mentioned that I don't think I am actually mouth breathing as much as just letting my tongue drop and that releases the pressure from my lungs/breathing way into my mouth where it blows past the teeth and lips and anything I have put there to stop it so far - Smile

Thanks for the thoughts !

I am not a Medical professional and I don't play one on the internet.
Started CPAP Therapy April 5, 2016
I'd Rather Be Sleeping
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#6
Hm, maybe a boxer mouthpiece would work better? That would block the space in front of your teeth.

Or maybe not. It sounds like the solution is going to have to make your tongue stay in place, rather than sealing your lips. I don't know.



(05-10-2016, 07:52 AM)FrankNichols Wrote: It feels like my tongue is dropping down from the roof of my mouth more than it is moving forward. And I think I mentioned that I don't think I am actually mouth breathing as much as just letting my tongue drop and that releases the pressure from my lungs/breathing way into my mouth where it blows past the teeth and lips and anything I have put there to stop it so far - Smile

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#7
(05-10-2016, 08:36 AM)green wings Wrote: Or maybe not. It sounds like the solution is going to have to make your tongue stay in place, rather than sealing your lips.

Exactly! I read here and other places about people doing things like chin straps and taping and within a month or two they don't need to anymore as they learn to keep their mouth shut and tongue where it belongs - that is what I am hoping for. At the moment nothing is working, so I will keep on my search for a way to keep my big fat mouth shut!
I am not a Medical professional and I don't play one on the internet.
Started CPAP Therapy April 5, 2016
I'd Rather Be Sleeping
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#8
I've had same problems. I can mostly get paper micropor tape to work by making sure I have recently shaved; roll lips together before applying; pressing down firmly after applying. Recently surferdude2 had a recommendation on the thread on soft cervical collars to use the stretchy cloth chin strap to keep lips sealed. I was surprised to find that this works for me, though I have had some issues. I remain hopeful :-).

I will be interested in any polygrip successes. Good luck!
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#9
(05-10-2016, 10:00 AM)BKeeper Wrote: I've had same problems. I can mostly get paper micropor tape to work by making sure I have recently shaved; roll lips together before applying; pressing down firmly after applying. Recently surferdude2 had a recommendation on the thread on soft cervical collars to use the stretchy cloth chin strap to keep lips sealed. I was surprised to find that this works for me, though I have had some issues. I remain hopeful :-).

I will be interested in any polygrip successes. Good luck!

I think I read the thread about the white stretchy chin strap across the face working to stop mouth breathing, if that is the one you are referring to. I don't have one of those types of chin straps, but I did try a Ace Bandage to wrap around the lower face and over the lips/mouth and chin, which would seem to do the same thing, but if all else fails I may revisit that suggestion and buy one of those to try.

I am trying to work myself up to trying the poligrip - I have never used it and I tried a little bit on my lips to see what it tastes like and how "strong" a hold it seems to provide.

Taste wise it was kind of blah... sticky wise, it started not so much, but it seemed to slowly build up the strength of the binding and felt like it might do the job. The biggest issue I had was getting it off. There is going to have to be some way to get it off without scouring the lips every morning for it to be a palatable solution to me. I am still looking into it.

I am debating on using the F10 FFM tonight to get at least some therapy, and then trying the P10 again tomorrow, or just stick it out and try something on the P10 until I give up or find something that works. I mean, after all, I have had OSA fro 40 years now without even knowing it... so, therapy could wait a week if it needs too - or maybe not, dunno...

I am not a Medical professional and I don't play one on the internet.
Started CPAP Therapy April 5, 2016
I'd Rather Be Sleeping
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#10
In my experience, keeping my lips closed did not solve the problem. Eventually the pressure builds up in my mouth and blows my lips out. Even forcing my lips to stay closed did not work. Keeping the pressure out of your mouth by using the tongue trick is the only sure way to eliminate mouth leaks .

If you can find some way of putting pressure on the soft tissue under your jaw and back toward your neck, I think that it might help you to maintain the "tongue seal".

Best Regards,

PaytonA
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