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Poor sleeper - CPAP seems to help -- do I need it?
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SleepyDude Offline

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Post: #1
Poor sleeper - CPAP seems to help -- do I need it?
Hello,

TL;DR: Been using my wife's old CPAP for a few weeks now and am sleeping better -- does this mean I need one?

My wife has OSA, so I'm pretty familiar with it. She recently replaced her Respironics Remstar AUTO (older one with smartcard) with a Resmed S9.

For probably the past year I've had issues with getting a REALLY good night sleep. I wake up often in the night, even if it is just a slight rousing without really opening my eyes and going back to sleep. I've always been a morning person so I wake up no problem. However I'm prone to dozing off in dark meeting rooms at work and I can fall asleep reading or watching TV after work pretty easily. No issues with daily driving; long drives can be a challenge, however.

I'm a 36 yo male, higher BMI, non-smoker. My wife only reports occasional snoring from me. I'm normally a side sleeper.

Since my wife replaced he CPAP I decided to give her old one a try. I set a base pressure of 6cm and max of 18cm with the machine in auto mode.
I've used it for about 3 weeks now and feel MUCH more refreshed in the morning. When I wake up I check the pressure; it's usually still at 6, but can be up to 9 or 10 at times (I realize it will fluctuate over the night).

I also bought a Contec CMS50D pulse oximeter and recorded things for a week without the CPAP, and a week after using the CPAP for a week first. In the SPO2 software I used 3% desat for 10 sec as the

Without CPAP, here is an average night:
   

With CPAP, here is an average night:
   

So I'm not dropping below 90 much for O2 saturation, but clearly the CPAP keeps my O2 saturation consistent throughout the night.

I guess I'm not sure if my results without the machine are typical, or if they are indicative that I should pursue seeing a sleep doc.

Thanks!
12-12-2014 12:08 PM
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Galactus Offline

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Post: #2
RE: Poor sleeper - CPAP seems to help -- do I need it?
I'd say you already know the answer, and the charts you provide pretty clearly show the machine is helping you. I'd say time to go get a sleep test to confirm the diagnosis and get a current good machine for yourself.

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12-12-2014 12:15 PM
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SleepyDude Offline

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Machine: Resmed AirSense 10 Auto
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Post: #3
RE: Poor sleeper - CPAP seems to help -- do I need it?
(12-12-2014 12:15 PM)Galactus Wrote:  I'd say you already know the answer, and the charts you provide pretty clearly show the machine is helping you. I'd say time to go get a sleep test to confirm the diagnosis and get a current good machine for yourself.

Fair enough. I just wasnt sure if this was one of those things where a cpap would make anyone sleep better Smile. Guess I'll email my doc.,

I'm sure a new machine would work better than a 10yo one with 26000hr on it. My wife's sleep doctor was amazed how old it was.
12-12-2014 12:52 PM
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Galactus Offline

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Machine: Phillips Respironics System One PRS1 DS760P Auto BiPAP
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CPAP Pressure: E/I 13/20 PS 4/7 BiFlex 3
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Post: #4
RE: Poor sleeper - CPAP seems to help -- do I need it?
IMHO the stats show it will help you. A real sleep study will certainly tell you more, but those stats really make look like a yes it will help you. Sorry if it seemed like I was being short, was just a busy day. Definitely get a sleep study and see what they come up with for definite diagnosis.

If everyone thinks alike, then someone isn't thinking.
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12-13-2014 12:18 AM
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Mike1953 Offline

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Post: #5
RE: Poor sleeper - CPAP seems to help -- do I need it?
You need a real sleep study to know if you really need XPAP. The sleep world is full of many variables.
12-13-2014 07:36 PM
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DariaVader Offline
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Post: #6
RE: Poor sleeper - CPAP seems to help -- do I need it?
(12-12-2014 12:52 PM)SleepyDude Wrote:  Fair enough. I just wasnt sure if this was one of those things where a cpap would make anyone sleep better Smile. Guess I'll email my doc.,

I'm sure a new machine would work better than a 10yo one with 26000hr on it. My wife's sleep doctor was amazed how old it was.

I don't think cpap will make you feel better if you don't need one... sleep test will get you the right diagnosis, but seems to me that the "side effects" of cpap which are negligible if you are getting sleep for the first time in a long time would make cpap very uncomfy if it wasn't fixing something!
12-13-2014 08:10 PM
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SleepyDude Offline

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Post: #7
RE: Poor sleeper - CPAP seems to help -- do I need it?
(12-13-2014 12:18 AM)Galactus Wrote:  IMHO the stats show it will help you. A real sleep study will certainly tell you more, but those stats really make look like a yes it will help you. Sorry if it seemed like I was being short, was just a busy day. Definitely get a sleep study and see what they come up with for definite diagnosis.

I appreciate the response. I'm seeing my doctor about it tomorrow. I'm imagining she'll send me for a sleep test. I did make sure to try all the obvious things first; eg cutting alcohol/caffeine after noon, cooler environment, warmer environment, etc. I'll be sure to update with the results.

(12-13-2014 07:36 PM)Mike1953 Wrote:  You need a real sleep study to know if you really need XPAP. The sleep world is full of many variables.

Yeah, I'm sure trying a 10+ year old machine that is undoubtedly out of calibration isn't the most scientific indicator. Smile

(12-13-2014 08:10 PM)DariaVader Wrote:  I don't think cpap will make you feel better if you don't need one... sleep test will get you the right diagnosis, but seems to me that the "side effects" of cpap which are negligible if you are getting sleep for the first time in a long time would make cpap very uncomfy if it wasn't fixing something!

It definitely took some getting used to using the CPAP machine, that's for sure. Having the wrong size mask for my face means it is very prone to leaking and what not. I've been trying a nasal pillow setup over the past few days (wife had to get a new one) -- still too small but SO much more comfortable.

I've noticed over the past few weeks of using it that my sleep has gradually improved even more. Where I was still waking up at times initially, I'm now regularly sleeping solidly through the night until the usual 15 minutes before my alarm goes off (darn internal alarm).

My wife was observing that the deviated septum I had fixed years ago seems to have re-deviated significantly over the past couple years. So who knows maybe this is related.

Anyhow, thanks for the responses all.
12-29-2014 04:27 PM
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TyroneShoes Offline

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Post: #8
RE: Poor sleeper - CPAP seems to help -- do I need it?
(12-29-2014 04:27 PM)SleepyDude Wrote:  ...I'm sure trying a 10+ year old machine that is undoubtedly out of calibration isn't the most scientific indicator. Smile...

I don't think it is that so much, as it is how much more sophisticated the new machines are. Heated hoses and better masks make new systems more comfortable, but the best thing is that they collect data, which you can parse and use it to titrate your therapy, targeting it to custom needs, which provides for a better result. Most have a cell modem to push that data to the sleep doc or DME, so are convenient as well. We now have software available to allow us to actively participate in our own therapy. You can even integrate your 02/pulsimeter directly into the data readouts.

And there are better versions; BiPAP, APAP and ASV can better treat certain patients, and EPR can make things more comfortable and help compliance.

a 10 year-old CPAP isn't just uncalibrated (actually, there is little for it to be calibrated to until you have a test and determine what settings are correct for you) it's a brick. A blower. Basically a hair dryer with a tube attached. It's too stupid to collect data or react to it automatically. And probably much louder. You can't even hear the new ones.
(This post was last modified: 01-01-2015 11:27 PM by TyroneShoes.)
01-01-2015 11:24 PM
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Sleeprider Online
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Post: #9
RE: Poor sleeper - CPAP seems to help -- do I need it?
I used a Remstar Auto M-Series until just two weeks ago when I finally replaced it with a PRS One Auto. The new machine is much nicer, but calling the old one a brick is just wrong. I was able to read the SmartCard data and make appropriate changes in the therapy settings. With 19,000 hours, it worked as good as new up to the last day I used it. New one is better, but this one is a good therapeutic device as SleepyDude is finding.

Do you have the SmartCard reader? If you do, then the data from your sleep can be read using EncoreBasic available through this forum as a free download.

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01-02-2015 12:14 AM
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TyroneShoes Offline

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Post: #10
RE: Poor sleeper - CPAP seems to help -- do I need it?
My apologies. I was being flip. It was incorrect for me to imply that ALL older CPAP machines are completely unsophisticated, primarily because some still have them and might be offended by that. My bad, most definitely, and I will try to be more careful.

What I meant to imply is that most of them are, and getting a newer one will likely be a vast improvement, regardless. Technology accelerates exponentially, and the result is that older systems become outdated and outmoded faster and faster; old workhorses do still sometimes hold some value, but if you are at a point where you think XPAP therapy might be a good move, going new is the only really smart move.

There is also a difference between 10 years old (26000 hours), the vintage being discussed, and 7 years old (19000 hours). Those who partake of single-malt scotch will also likely attest to that. The phrase "My wife's sleep doctor was amazed how old it was." sort of says it all.
(This post was last modified: 01-02-2015 01:11 AM by TyroneShoes.)
01-02-2015 12:49 AM
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