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Pulse Oximeter CMS-50D+
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pssnn Offline
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Post: #41
RE: Pulse Oximeter CMS-50D+
(05-12-2012 01:58 PM)SlightlySleepy Wrote:  
(05-12-2012 12:55 PM)PaulaO2 Wrote:  If the batteries run out, it will automatically turn the recording off. If you put in new batteries, the recording is still there. The batteries must be full and the device on before the software will see it. And, of course, if you turn on record again, it will erase the previous data.

Yes, but there's the rub. How does one turn it back on again without erasing the data (one must hold the 'single' button long enough for it to turn on, which apparently also starts the recording again since it was in recording mode when batteries went out. By the way, batteries were lo, not completely dead when I plugged it into USB -- it was only after attempting to download data (unsuccessfully) that I noticed the device had turned off completely. I turned it back on briefly before replacing the batteries.

My batteries died on me one night after about 45 minutes. I was able to replace the batteries the next morning and download the 45 minutes of data with no problem.
Also, just holding the meter's button until the menu is displayed should not erase the data. One would have to select the "Record On” function to overwrite the previous data.

"Goodnight Chesty wherever you are!"
05-12-2012 02:14 PM
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PaulaO2 Offline
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Post: #42
RE: Pulse Oximeter CMS-50D+
Like psnnn said, putting in new batteries or turning it back on after it was off will not erase the data. The only way to erase the data is to manually turn the record back on.

If you see the blinking light, it is recording. You can press the button to 'revive' it and see the screen. There is no need to leave it on the settings screen the entire night. Turn on the record, leave that screen, and after a few seconds the screen will go blank with just a blinking light in the corner.

I use rechargeable batteries and get 2 nights out of them easily.

I just messed with the device and discovered the two halves lift off from each other via the hinge. When that happens, the device loses power. Getting it tangled in the covers or whatever could pull it apart and turn it off.

Yes, it is a cheap device. If I wanted something more accurate, I would spend the money. As it is, I use it as a reference.

PaulaO2
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INFORMATION ON APNEA BOARD FORUMS OR ON APNEABOARD.COM SHOULD NOT BE CONSIDERED AS MEDICAL ADVICE. ALWAYS SEEK THE ADVICE OF A PHYSICIAN BEFORE SEEKING TREATMENT FOR MEDICAL CONDITIONS, INCLUDING SLEEP APNEA. INFORMATION POSTED ON THE APNEA BOARD WEB SITE AND FORUMS ARE PERSONAL OPINION ONLY AND NOT NECESSARILY A STATEMENT OF FACT.
05-12-2012 02:34 PM
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SlightlySleepy Offline

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Post: #43
RE: Pulse Oximeter CMS-50D+
(05-12-2012 02:14 PM)pssnn Wrote:  Also, just holding the meter's button until the menu is displayed should not erase the data. One would have to select the "Record On” function to overwrite the previous data.

Then how do we explain my lost data because I most DEFINITELY did not press and hold the button.

(05-12-2012 02:34 PM)PaulaO2 Wrote:  Like psnnn said, putting in new batteries or turning it back on after it was off will not erase the data. The only way to erase the data is to manually turn the record back on.

If you see the blinking light, it is recording. You can press the button to 'revive' it and see the screen. There is no need to leave it on the settings screen the entire night. Turn on the record, leave that screen, and after a few seconds the screen will go blank with just a blinking light in the corner.

I use rechargeable batteries and get 2 nights out of them easily.

Please keep in mind I am not reviewing other people's experience, only my own.

Is the general consensus my device may be defective? I have a tendency to blame myself and later found out it was not me, so that could be the problem here.

I was hoping to fish out someone with a similar experience to find out what happened, or at least a plausible explanation.

Having learned my lesson previously I definitely did not leave it in the 'settings' mode overnight, last night I chose 'exit' and rely on the blinking yellow light to know it is recording. I am not sure why there was more display this morning, except perhaps something bumped the button in the middle of the night, or perhaps it comes on when the battery is low? Or perhaps in my sleepy state I DID turn it off first thing in the morning. If I did, I definitely did NOT try to exit that screen because I know that it has to be in the settings-> off mode in order to download the data. Now that I recall, that is probably where it was while I walked to my computer to download data, and during that period the batteries conked out, or perhaps only the display turned off??? Turning it back on with the 'single' button then perhaps erased the data?

**What is the recommended 'safe' procedure under the above scenario, which looks like it is going to be a regular problem for me?

PS On an unrelated note Much as I like Cooper Medical Supplies customer service, I found a source for what looks like an identical oximeter for under $60.
05-12-2012 04:13 PM
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PaulaO2 Offline
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Post: #44
RE: Pulse Oximeter CMS-50D+
If you think the device is defective, return it.

As much as I have tried, and I tested it several times today, I could not get the data to erase other than turning the record back to on. The only way I got it to stop recording was to turn the record off or muck with it so it lost power. Even then, the data was still there.

To turn the record on, you have to press the button in a certain order and I don't see how it could come on accidentally. I tried pressing the button and not letting go. All it did was turn on and go to the settings screen then sit there with the arrow on Alarm.

Either you do not understand how it works (which I am fairly certain you do) or your device is defective.

PaulaO2
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Breathe deeply and count to zen.

INFORMATION ON APNEA BOARD FORUMS OR ON APNEABOARD.COM SHOULD NOT BE CONSIDERED AS MEDICAL ADVICE. ALWAYS SEEK THE ADVICE OF A PHYSICIAN BEFORE SEEKING TREATMENT FOR MEDICAL CONDITIONS, INCLUDING SLEEP APNEA. INFORMATION POSTED ON THE APNEA BOARD WEB SITE AND FORUMS ARE PERSONAL OPINION ONLY AND NOT NECESSARILY A STATEMENT OF FACT.
05-12-2012 04:49 PM
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SlightlySleepy Offline

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Post: #45
RE: Pulse Oximeter CMS-50D+
(05-12-2012 04:49 PM)PaulaO2 Wrote:  If you think the device is defective, return it.

As much as I have tried, and I tested it several times today, I could not get the data to erase other than turning the record back to on. The only way I got it to stop recording was to turn the record off or muck with it so it lost power. Even then, the data was still there.

To turn the record on, you have to press the button in a certain order and I don't see how it could come on accidentally. I tried pressing the button and not letting go. All it did was turn on and go to the settings screen then sit there with the arrow on Alarm.

Either you do not understand how it works (which I am fairly certain you do) or your device is defective.

Wow, thanks Paula for taking the time to try to reproduce this. I'm a little surprised that it is not reproducible, but I'm not certain whether you followed exactly the same sequence I described (actually I think I may have described it slightly wrong the first time, my memory possibly tricked me). Before I ask you to repeat, I will try and intentionally lose some data again (on purpose this time!) and see if I can reproduce what I think happened this morning, if so, I will post the exact sequence simulating what happened last night and if you still have any patience left to try one more scenario, we can verify that something is amiss on my end or it is just a user error or interface 'feature'. Isn't science fun!

EDIT: Don't try this at home, I think I was able to reproduce and explain it to my own satisfaction. Details in next post.
(This post was last modified: 05-12-2012 06:49 PM by SlightlySleepy.)
05-12-2012 06:08 PM
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SlightlySleepy Offline

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Post: #46
RE: Pulse Oximeter CMS-50D+
1) Last night started recording with fresh batteries
2) Exited to main screen, which eventually turned to pulsing dot
3) This morning, removed finger (finger out warning)
4) Pressed (not clicked) to enter settings, clicked to Recording, then pressed to turn recording-> Off
5) Took device to computer to download data
6) Plugged into USB. Apparently since it is mini-USB, there is no power supplied to device via the USB cable, and since low battery warning was on when I woke up, device shut down when connected to USB either before or after I attempted to download data.

[here is where I had to simulate results of low battery causing shut down at the exactly right time by removing good batteries both a) prior, b) during, and c) after attempting to download data. Note: trial (b) was a bit of a cheat since I did not know how to make the batteries go dead at exactly the time I was downloading data, so I removed the battery immediately during the data download, then replaced the battery with old used batteries that from previous experience I knew had just enough juice to turn on the oximeter (like happened this morning) but shut down when attempting to record data, or when attempting to download data]

7) a) simulation (a) above: successfully able to download data with new batteries
b) simulation (b) unable, only get 'device connected, waiting for data' then 'receiving data, Please wait' but no progress bars etc. Replaced batteries. Still unable to download any data. Apparently all data lost. Even after restarting SPO2 Review.

c) was not fully explored as b) appears to more accurate represent my morning problem and fully reproduces problem

8) Worrying that I had permanently damaged my oximeter, I closed SPO2 review completely, turned off and disconnected the oximeter, made a new recording and attempted the download properly and everything worked properly as it should.

In summary, I think that what happened was less to do with the oximeter than some peculiarity of Windows losing touch with the USB driver somehow when the power went off, possibly corrupting the flash memory, or at least messing with the Windows--USB connect session. My failure place fresh batteries PRIOR to attempting a download on low power and my failure to reboot SPO2 and start over from scratch at the first hint of trouble were my problems exacerbated the problem. (I think at least)

1) Always have a full battery when attempting to download data, even if it risks touching the navigational button to exit the settings menu (not sure this is necessary since I suppose one could just simply remove batteries while in the recording->OFF mode (More experimentation on my part needed, but per Paula's and other's reports, data seems to be retained despite power loss and reboot under new batteries).
2) If somehow a partial transfer or USB connection was made PRIOR to battery failure, a complete restart of SPO2 review software and reconnection of oximeter via cable is probably recommended. Bst to avoid this scenario and consequent data corruption by using fresh batteries in the morning -- which is a tad inconvenient given that they are likely very tired from a full night's work! ;-)

At least that is my working hypothesis for the next 2 nights before my appointment.
(This post was last modified: 05-12-2012 06:55 PM by SlightlySleepy.)
05-12-2012 06:49 PM
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PaulaO2 Offline
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Post: #47
RE: Pulse Oximeter CMS-50D+
The device is actually not true USB compatible. The reason it has that huge honking end is to change it from a serial (com) port to a USB. That part is like the translator.

I just tested your theory and you are correct. I did this in several ways but I'll condense them. :grin:

I recorded just a minute or so while I was sitting here.
I stopped the recording and hooked it up to the computer.
Turned on SpO2 Review and downloaded the data to confirm it was there.
Exited SpO2 and re-opened it.
I took off the battery compartment lid and put a finger on a battery.
As soon as it said device detected, I flipped the battery out, losing the connection
I then put the battery back and SpO2 "downloaded" 0.0 seconds of data and had a blank graph.

I unplugged the cable from the device, plugged it back in, and tried again.
It again downloaded 0.0 seconds of data.

In another test, similar to the first, but did nothing to the batteries.
I downloaded the data to check if it was there.
I turned off SpO2 Review.
I turned it back on and told it to download.
There was nothing on the device. (0.0 seconds)

I unplugged it from the USB cable and tried again.
It downloaded the data.

So there are two scenarios where the software does not see data:

In one, it is just a matter of re-establishing the device to the computer.

In the other, if data transfer and/or device recognition is disrupted by power failure in the device, the data is erased.

I made a note of both and will add them to the warnings for the software's wiki page.

PaulaO2
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INFORMATION ON APNEA BOARD FORUMS OR ON APNEABOARD.COM SHOULD NOT BE CONSIDERED AS MEDICAL ADVICE. ALWAYS SEEK THE ADVICE OF A PHYSICIAN BEFORE SEEKING TREATMENT FOR MEDICAL CONDITIONS, INCLUDING SLEEP APNEA. INFORMATION POSTED ON THE APNEA BOARD WEB SITE AND FORUMS ARE PERSONAL OPINION ONLY AND NOT NECESSARILY A STATEMENT OF FACT.
05-12-2012 07:57 PM
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pssnn Offline
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Machine: ResMed S9 Autoset
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Post: #48
RE: Pulse Oximeter CMS-50D+
SlightlySleepy and PaulaO2

Nice detective work you two!!! Great info! Okay

"Goodnight Chesty wherever you are!"
05-12-2012 08:53 PM
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SlightlySleepy Offline

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Post: #49
RE: Pulse Oximeter CMS-50D+
Revised again: ( 3 + 4 + 4 ) /3 = 3.67 stars average

(05-12-2012 07:57 PM)PaulaO2 Wrote:  ...I took off the battery compartment lid and put a finger on a battery.
As soon as it said device detected, I flipped the battery out, losing the connection...

LOL! You are so brave, Paula02! We could have bricked these things! And great minds think alike! That is exactly what I did (battery cover off, finger nail poised on the end of the battery and flicking it out at the proper (or improper!) time!

Incidentally, I'm going to reassess and probably raise my opinion of the CMS-50D+ now that I know it is more a problem of Com port - USB-Driver interaction. I agree that this jury-rigged house of cards Com port to USB adaptor driver connection is an accident waiting to happen, and leaves a huge opportunity for a newer version to compete favorably, but at least knowing the risks and reasons for what is happening will help us reliably prevent them and I actually have more faith in the device now than I did this morning (In other words, it avoided the famous SlightlySleepy Heave Ho Olympic Floor Impact test!)

Even our network routers, mp3 players, and such warn that there should be no power interruption when updating bios, and in some ways, what we are doing when tranferring data might be thought of as updating bios, although not really (it's more downloading data, but supposedly even that can cause loss of data on a flash drive if improperly ejected --I'm not totally sure why). And I long ago stopped using a parallel port to USB adaptor scanner because it was so fickle, so I guess we should just be thankful this system works at all!

Excellent, work, Sherlock (I'll play Watson to you any day!) I am sure proud to have ever so slightly contributed to the fund of knowledge.

EDIT: PS PaulaO2 -- your research helped answer one of my lingering questions, which was whether or not there was something dangerous that happened when we close the SPO2 Review software session. Apparently Yes and No. From your description, something about closing the session and then exiting the software breaks the connection, but No, it does not erase the data like a power interruption would.

Sleep-well
(This post was last modified: 05-12-2012 11:51 PM by SlightlySleepy.)
05-12-2012 11:31 PM
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SlightlySleepy Offline

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Post: #50
RE: Pulse Oximeter CMS-50D+
Ok, final review numbers are in:
2

Short story: Just lost another night's sleep data. Tried to download data. Zilch. Nada.

Why? After a good long weekend night's rest, I left my CMS-50D+ running while I removed the batteries (thus simulating a dead battery situation) and then placed NEW batteries in to prepare for the critical data transfer process (which from yesterday's detective work we thought was the critical time! Wrong!) The batteries cannot be removed or run down prior to data transfer apparently!!! When I connected the oximeter to the USB connector and opened the software, it said "device connected, waiting for data and downloaded...NOTHING (blank screen with less than a second data on it).

I give up. This is ridiculous! My rechargeable's don't seem to be able to a full night consistently (although last night they probably could have) and buying new non-rechargeable batteries every night defeats the cheap price of the CMS-50D+.

I'm looking at Nonin's but nothing really catches my eye (software alone is $425) Is it time to reverse engineer the CMS50D+ and give it a decent USB jtag connector?
(This post was last modified: 05-13-2012 11:52 AM by SlightlySleepy.)
05-13-2012 11:51 AM
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