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Question on NP mouth "blowout"
#1
Hi everyone, I'm new but I've lurked much and read much. Also use sleepyhead. Pappin for a little over a month. Understand I'm a rookie until about year 5.

With that said, I switched from a FFM to Pillows yesterday. I LOVED the feel of the pillows vs the FFM. I have a pillow for FFM and I felt the whole thing was too constrictive and had too many leaks-despite trying to correct them. Wanted to try another mask. So I did...

I had multiple times where the air would "blow" my mouth open-to the point where the chin strap didn't help (and I know they are mostly training devices) BUT the piece of vertical tape blew off. I only taped the middle of my lips. I went to bed thinking all this would be great. Maybe a leak at the nostril. Had a conversation in my head with the tongue and told it that it would stay put. Then sleepytime.

No nostril leaks, but the blow out at my mouth, even with the precautions, was one after another after another. My pressure never went above 8, and usually never goes above 9. My AHI is consistently <1.0 with a few exceptions.

I must have ripped it off in the middle of the night because it was on the floor this AM, looking sad and dejected.

I'm angry now. I want this to work. I've had a PE that almost killed me. My father has OSA and has for 20 years. His facial structure is similar to mine. My mom had COPD and all kinds of lung issues. I want this for my HEALTH!

I realize this is one night of an experience, but I can't for the life of me figure out why air would continue to blow out the mouth when the mouth is essentially closed. Shouldn't the air redirect on it's own if the mouth is closed?

I've spent some time searching the forum and can't find an answer to this, just that it is open mouth or open mouth breathing.

If you feel inclined, any input is appreciated. Stats on the side.

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#2
I am not a health care professional, just someone who has used a cpap since 2009. During that time I've used a 'pillow' mask exclusively as I felt a FFM was too constrictive. In addition I have a narrow bridge on my nose which makes fitting a FFM mask difficult.

Do you think there is any chance that your body is quite used to the FFM and given more time you will adapt to the pillow mask? I remember back when I had my sleep study, I asked the technician "how do you train yourself to keep your mouth closed"? Her reply was "You give yourself time and keep telling yourself to keep your tongue on the roof of your mouth." Her advice has pretty much worked for me, not that I don't have periods where my AHI is higher than in the past.

Also, have you tried any chin straps? There are different ones on the market and since everyone of us is different, what works for me might not feel comfortable for you.
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#3
(03-04-2016, 10:35 AM)GrammaBear Wrote: I am not a health care professional, just someone who has used a cpap since 2009. During that time I've used a 'pillow' mask exclusively as I felt a FFM was too constrictive. In addition I have a narrow bridge on my nose which makes fitting a FFM mask difficult.

Do you think there is any chance that your body is quite used to the FFM and given more time you will adapt to the pillow mask? I remember back when I had my sleep study, I asked the technician "how do you train yourself to keep your mouth closed"? Her reply was "You give yourself time and keep telling yourself to keep your tongue on the roof of your mouth." Her advice has pretty much worked for me, not that I don't have periods where my AHI is higher than in the past.

Also, have you tried any chin straps? There are different ones on the market and since everyone of us is different, what works for me might not feel comfortable for you.

I felt very comfortable with the pillows last night, so I don't think it is that. I was excited actually, that something felt ok from the start.

I used a chin strap and a piece of vertical tape only on the center of my lips. The tape blew off. When I put it back on a bit tighter, the air still blew through to my mouth, out my cheeks, and blew it off again. I haven't had it long enough to train the tongue, I wonder how that works when your facial muscles relax.

My mouth was closed the entire time, it was only when the air went into the closed mouth that it became a fiasco.

I do realize it is only day one, but I haven't read about this particular issue yet, unless I'm missing it somewhere.

Thank you for replying!

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#4
(03-04-2016, 10:46 AM)PappinLikeABoss Wrote:
(03-04-2016, 10:35 AM)GrammaBear Wrote: I am not a health care professional, just someone who has used a cpap since 2009. During that time I've used a 'pillow' mask exclusively as I felt a FFM was too constrictive. In addition I have a narrow bridge on my nose which makes fitting a FFM mask difficult.

Do you think there is any chance that your body is quite used to the FFM and given more time you will adapt to the pillow mask? I remember back when I had my sleep study, I asked the technician "how do you train yourself to keep your mouth closed"? Her reply was "You give yourself time and keep telling yourself to keep your tongue on the roof of your mouth." Her advice has pretty much worked for me, not that I don't have periods where my AHI is higher than in the past.

Also, have you tried any chin straps? There are different ones on the market and since everyone of us is different, what works for me might not feel comfortable for you.

I felt very comfortable with the pillows last night, so I don't think it is that. I was excited actually, that something felt ok from the start.

I used a chin strap and a piece of vertical tape only on the center of my lips. The tape blew off. When I put it back on a bit tighter, the air still blew through to my mouth, out my cheeks, and blew it off again. I haven't had it long enough to train the tongue, I wonder how that works when your facial muscles relax.

My mouth was closed the entire time, it was only when the air went into the closed mouth that it became a fiasco.

I do realize it is only day one, but I haven't read about this particular issue yet, unless I'm missing it somewhere.

Thank you for replying!

Also, the pressure is at about 8-9 when this happened, as I thought it was a pressure issue. I've read that pressure is under the threshold of about 11 for pillows. I had S size pillows and switched to M, had problem with both ( I napped with the S yesterday). Maybe pillow size? I have xs, s and m.
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#5
I will tell you from my experience that many chin straps did not work for me. First, your lips will not contain the pressure so it is more than just a matter of keeping your mouth closed. You must master sealing your mouth from the rest of your airway using your tongue on the roof of your mouth. It is easy to do while awake but more difficult to maintain while asleep. It helps if you practice it while awake.

On to the chin strap. I tried a number of chin straps that helped me to keep my mouth closed but did not seem to encourage my tongue to maintain the seal. For me, the chin straps with a chin cup did not help. I tried a 3" wide chin strap with no chin cup and placed it under my chin with the front just under my chin and the back up against my neck. The pressure on the soft tissue under my jaw seems to help me to maintain the tongue seal all night long.

I have used the chin strap even though I use a full face mask to keep from mouth leaking and getting dry mouth. I went through a period where I could not maintain the seal and was suffering from dry mouth. I bought the chin strap that I have described and the first night that I used it, no more dry mouth.

Good luck with getting your therapy under control.

Best Regards,

PaytonA
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#6
(03-04-2016, 11:31 AM)PaytonA Wrote: I will tell you from my experience that many chin straps did not work for me. First, your lips will not contain the pressure so it is more than just a matter of keeping your mouth closed. You must master sealing your mouth from the rest of your airway using your tongue on the roof of your mouth. It is easy to do while awake but more difficult to maintain while asleep. It helps if you practice it while awake.

On to the chin strap. I tried a number of chin straps that helped me to keep my mouth closed but did not seem to encourage my tongue to maintain the seal. For me, the chin straps with a chin cup did not help. I tried a 3" wide chin strap with no chin cup and placed it under my chin with the front just under my chin and the back up against my neck. The pressure on the soft tissue under my jaw seems to help me to maintain the tongue seal all night long.

I have used the chin strap even though I use a full face mask to keep from mouth leaking and getting dry mouth. I went through a period where I could not maintain the seal and was suffering from dry mouth. I bought the chin strap that I have described and the first night that I used it, no more dry mouth.

Good luck with getting your therapy under control.

Best Regards,

PaytonA


Thank you, PaytonA. This makes sense to me and I will try the strap I have closer to my neck tonight. I can see why the chin cup isn't working...and I didn't think about the lips not maintaining pressure.Dont-know

Good stuff.


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#7
When I first started I mouth breathed a lot, well mouth leaked. I usually use a FFM, but did try the P10 for a while. Chipmunk cheek was also fun, not really. You get used to it and your body adapts, I found I can actually yawn with my FFM and some how not have it show up as a leak-I know that my bottom lip extends beyond the FFM.

Turns out I can't use the P10 because of exhaling into pressure is worse with it.
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#8
Hi PappinLikeABoss,
WELCOME! to the forum.!
Much success to you with your CPAP therapy and hang in there for more responses to your post.
trish6hundred
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#9
(03-04-2016, 07:47 PM)trish6hundred Wrote: Hi PappinLikeABoss,
WELCOME! to the forum.!
Much success to you with your CPAP therapy and hang in there for more responses to your post.

thank you Trish!
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#10
I use a P10 also, and the tongue barrier technique Payton referred to is what has enabled me to do so. I am able to not use a chinstrap, largely because if air starts coming out my mouth it wakes me immediately so training was easy. To form the tongue barrier (or what I lovingly refer to as the "Tongue Suck Technique"
  • Place your tongue behind your front teeth on the roof of your mouth
  • let your tongue fill the space between the upper molars
  • gently suck to form a light vacuum

Using this barrier during the day can help you to keep it at night
هههههه هههههه هههههه هههههه هههههه هههههه هههههه هههههه هههههه هههههه هههههه هههههه هههههه هههههه
Tongue Suck Technique for prevention of mouth breathing:
  • Place your tongue behind your front teeth on the roof of your mouth
  • let your tongue fill the space between the upper molars
  • gently suck to form a light vacuum
Practising during the day can help you to keep it at night

هههههه هههههه هههههه هههههه هههههه هههههه هههههه هههههه هههههه هههههه هههههه هههههه هههههه هههههه
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