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Question on changing from nm to ffm
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Spog Offline

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Machine: remstar plus m
Mask Type: Nasal mask
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Sex: Male
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Post: #1
Question on changing from nm to ffm
Happy New Year Everyone!

I need to ask if I should be concerned about adjusting the pressure setting on my machine if I swap to a full face mask as I intend to do tonight for the first time.
Been using a nasal mask for 6 years, now having open mouth issues and chin strap did not correct the problem so I decided to try ffm method.

Hope you are having an enjoyable day!
Thanks,
SPOG
12-31-2012 08:58 AM
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zimlich Offline

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Posts: 392
Joined: Feb 2012

Machine: Respironics PR System One BiPap Auto SV Advanced
Mask Type: Nasal mask
Mask Make & Model: ResMed gel Nasal Mask
Humidifier: System One
CPAP Pressure: 8-20 ASV, 8 EPAP,PS 12
CPAP Software: Not using software

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Location: Norfolk, VA

Post: #2
RE: Question on changing from nm to ffm
No, you should not have to change the pressure when you change masks- from nasal to FFM. My Respironics System One Machine has a setting for setting resistance which may vary with the mask. On some machines this is locked. I would not be concerned about this. Good luck.
Mary
12-31-2012 12:49 PM
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archangle Offline
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Posts: 3,159
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Machine: ResMed S9 AutoSet
Mask Type: Nasal pillows
Mask Make & Model: ResMed Swift FX
Humidifier: ResMed S9 H5i
CPAP Pressure: 16-20
CPAP Software: ResScan SleepyHead EncoreBasic

Other Comments: Happy PAPper

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Post: #3
RE: Question on changing from nm to ffm
In theory, there is no difference, but some very smart people believe a FFM can push your jaw back and make your apnea worse. Unfortunately, with a Plus CPAP machine, you have no data to work from.

It probably doesn't affect everyone, and we can't really guess at how much, if any, extra pressure you in particular might need.

Try it and see how it works.

Get the free SleepyHead software here.
Useful links.
Click here for information on the main alternative to CPAP.
If it's midnight and a DME tells you it's dark outside, go and check it yourself.
12-31-2012 05:31 PM
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zonk Offline

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Posts: 7,908
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Machine: A10 AutoSet
Mask Type: Nasal mask
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CPAP Pressure: 9/13
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Other Comments: CPAP since Nov 2010

Sex: Male
Location: Australia

Post: #4
RE: Question on changing from nm to ffm
(12-31-2012 05:31 PM)archangle Wrote:  In theory, there is no difference,
here is another plausible theory ???
my pressure was higher with full face mask than nasal mask
full face mask leaked like a sieve so the autoset had to work a bit harder to keep-up
12-31-2012 06:11 PM
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Shastzi Offline

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Posts: 1,174
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Machine: ResMed S9 Autoset
Mask Type: Full face mask
Mask Make & Model: FitLife Total face mask
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CPAP Pressure: 15cm-20cm H2O (auto)
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Other Comments: CMS50-F wearable Oximeter; Software: SPO2 Assistant

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Post: #5
RE: Question on changing from nm to ffm
I can tell you that the FFM does push your lower jaw back and it irritated my TMJ when starting out, but my jaw muscles are slowly acclimating to it.

Spog:
I run a Remstar Plus now too. The Remstar Plus is not real smart in the pressure department I check mine often with a digital manometer and a tee fitting I made up from hardware store / automotive parts.
I always run a pressure check when I switch masks though because I have found that the exhaust vents are different on each mask (some are less restrictive than others)
If I use the FullLife and set the machine at 14.5 cwp, I get a measured 15.9 cwp. Quite a difference!
If you are interested in doing your own pressure measurements to spot check your equipment, just give me a buzz and I'll show you how I use it all.

Cheers!
=^.^=
12-31-2012 09:05 PM
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Moriarty Offline

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Posts: 270
Joined: Jul 2012

Machine: Respironics REMStar 50 Series Auto
Mask Type: Nasal pillows
Mask Make & Model: Fisher & Pakel Pilairo Q
Humidifier: Respironics System One
CPAP Pressure: 8.5-20 (average 9.4)
CPAP Software: SleepyHead

Other Comments: Image above is my CPAP machine...

Sex: Male
Location: Toowoomba - Qld - Australia

Post: #6
RE: Question on changing from nm to ffm
(12-31-2012 05:31 PM)archangle Wrote:  ....some very smart people believe a FFM can push your jaw back and make your apnea worse....

Interesting point there Archangel... I started out on a Hybrid mask and was getting AHI that was quite unstable - ranging from 3 to 7 - and getting sore jaw joints even though I took care to avoid over-tightening the mask.

After changing to the Pilairo Nasal my AHI is now av around 2.7 and is very stable. I had a few weeks on the Swift FX and had AHI av around 1.8 but it hurt my nose so I went back to the Pilairo a few months back.
01-05-2013 08:27 AM
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twindad Offline

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Posts: 27
Joined: Sep 2012

Machine: PRS1 Remstar Pro/Auto
Mask Type: Nasal mask
Mask Make & Model: Mirage FX and Quattro FX
Humidifier: PRS1 heated/heated tube models
CPAP Pressure: 14 cpap / 10 to 16 auto
CPAP Software: SleepyHead EncoreBasic

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Sex: Male
Location: Southeastern United States

Post: #7
RE: Question on changing from nm to ffm
(12-31-2012 08:58 AM)Spog Wrote:  Happy New Year Everyone!

I need to ask if I should be concerned about adjusting the pressure setting on my machine if I swap to a full face mask as I intend to do tonight for the first time.
Been using a nasal mask for 6 years, now having open mouth issues and chin strap did not correct the problem so I decided to try ffm method.

Hope you are having an enjoyable day!
Thanks,
SPOG

My sleep doctor told me that if I went from a nasal mask to a full face mask, that my pressure would probably need to be changed from 14 up to 16. I tried a Quattro FX ffm in place of a Mirage FX nasal mask at the same presure of 14 for a couple of nights and my AHI stayed below 2 with each of them, so I didn't need a pressure increase. The Quattro FX did seem to open my mouth when its cushion inflated, so I had an RT check the fit, which seemed fine. The Quattro FX seems to prop open my mouth even when I wear the same chinstrap that keeps my mouth closed with the nasal mask, and this dries out my tongue and gives me a cotton-mouth feeling from mouthbreathing all night. Anyone got any suggestions on how to deal with this while wearing the full face mask?
01-05-2013 11:27 PM
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zonk Offline

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Posts: 7,908
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Machine: A10 AutoSet
Mask Type: Nasal mask
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Sex: Male
Location: Australia

Post: #8
RE: Question on changing from nm to ffm
(01-05-2013 11:27 PM)twindad Wrote:  The Quattro FX seems to prop open my mouth even when I wear the same chinstrap that keeps my mouth closed with the nasal mask, and this dries out my tongue and gives me a cotton-mouth feeling from mouthbreathing all night. Anyone got any suggestions on how to deal with this while wearing the full face mask?
it cannot be helped. full face mask allow you to breathe from your mouth and mouth breathing dry the mouth
some find more extra humidity does help but in some instances can cause rainout (there are solutions for rainout)
room humidifier can increase air moisture in bedroom
some medication known to dry the mouth. keep hydrated during the day and keep small bottle of water by the bedside so you take a sip if get up during the night. have you trid Biotenne mouth wash

the other option, go back using the nasal mask with chinstrap ... breathe thru your nose and keep mouth closed
01-05-2013 11:59 PM
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TheWerkz Offline

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Posts: 261
Joined: Oct 2012

Machine: ResMed S9 AutoSet
Mask Type: Full face mask
Mask Make & Model: ResMed Mirage Quattro
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CPAP Pressure: Auto-CPAP 11 - 20
CPAP Software: ResScan SleepyHead

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Sex: Male
Location: Dallas, TX - USA - Planet Earth

Post: #9
RE: Question on changing from nm to ffm
(01-05-2013 11:27 PM)twindad Wrote:  The Quattro FX seems to prop open my mouth even when I wear the same chinstrap that keeps my mouth closed with the nasal mask, and this dries out my tongue and gives me a cotton-mouth feeling from mouthbreathing all night.

Hi Twindad,

Have you seen this thread: How-to-achieve-the-perfect-mask-fit-GUARANTEED

You may want to turn-up the humidity setting as well, if you're breathing through your mouth or if your mouth just comes open while you're asleep the extra humidity should help some.

If you haven't figured-out how to do the "swing 'n seal" for the Quattro FX, there's also videos on youtube - just search Quattro FX and you'll find several.

Sleep-well

Ren
01-06-2013 12:05 AM
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twindad Offline

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Posts: 27
Joined: Sep 2012

Machine: PRS1 Remstar Pro/Auto
Mask Type: Nasal mask
Mask Make & Model: Mirage FX and Quattro FX
Humidifier: PRS1 heated/heated tube models
CPAP Pressure: 14 cpap / 10 to 16 auto
CPAP Software: SleepyHead EncoreBasic

Other Comments:

Sex: Male
Location: Southeastern United States

Post: #10
RE: Question on changing from nm to ffm
Thanks zonk and TheWerkz - I cranked up the heat on the humidifer and the heated tube on my auto machine and tried wearing my Quattro FX ffm with no chinstrap last night. It drained 3/4 of the water in my humidifer in 6 hours, which I thought was about right. I did mouthbreathe ALL (every sleeping minute of the) night and woke up with dried out tongue and mouth, but it Wasn't bad! Two sips of cold water first thing this morning (the first sip swished around a bit then spit out) got me rehydrated and feeling normal quick. I'm ready for allergy season with this ffm now! Thanks
(If anyone using the swishing water trick doesn't remove the dried film in their mouth well enough, try it with Coke Classic)
01-07-2013 10:02 PM
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