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Really? Man on the moon.........??
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justMongo Offline

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Post: #71
RE: Really? Man on the moon.........??
I seem to recall a preference for Swiss chocolate; and something about never buying Belgian chocolate.
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12-31-2014 01:40 PM
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DocWils Offline

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Post: #72
RE: Really? Man on the moon.........??
I would never disrespect Belgian chocolate (except for sugar loaded stuff like Godiva, which is tourist stuff), some of it is quite fine, in fact - double cream is used in many types of Belgian chocolate, which gives even its 65% types a rich texture and very little bight, and I was very fond of Belgian Crémant when I worked in Brussels - but I am duty bound to choose Swiss chocolate over any other (even when Italian chocolate blows me away sometimes - but I only ever buy it in Italy, and NEVER bring any home, lest the chocolate police come after me.). We have tourist tat here too, of course, but the stuff we keep for ourselves and don't sell on the foreign market, well, that is beyond description. If you are ever in Zurich, you have to simply go to Sprüngli in Paradeplatz and you will officially die and go to heaven. And there are even better places, and chocolates, than that in the city, let alone in the country.
12-31-2014 02:44 PM
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justMongo Offline

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Post: #73
RE: Really? Man on the moon.........??
(12-31-2014 02:44 PM)DocWils Wrote:  I would never disrespect Belgian chocolate (except for sugar loaded stuff like Godiva, which is tourist stuff), some of it is quite fine, in fact - double cream is used in many types of Belgian chocolate, which gives even its 65% types a rich texture and very little bight, and I was very fond of Belgian Crémant when I worked in Brussels - but I am duty bound to choose Swiss chocolate over any other (even when Italian chocolate blows me away sometimes - but I only ever buy it in Italy, and NEVER bring any home, lest the chocolate police come after me.). We have tourist tat here too, of course, but the stuff we keep for ourselves and don't sell on the foreign market, well, that is beyond description. If you are ever in Zurich, you have to simply go to Sprüngli in Paradeplatz and you will officially die and go to heaven. And there are even better places, and chocolates, than that in the city, let alone in the country.

I'll PM you my address. Please send a couple of pounds!

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12-31-2014 04:34 PM
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archangle Offline
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Post: #74
RE: Really? Man on the moon.........??
I just realized something about the idea of the moon landing.

The physics work. We have pictures of Apollo 11. I've seen the VAB. I've seen an unused Saturn V lying on the ground. You can look up the dimensions. You can calculate the amount of fuel it can carry. You can calculate the theoretical amounts of thrust, specific impulse, and theoretical capabilities. The radio characteristics work. Lots of real world technology is things that were developed by the space program.

Plenty of people saw the launches, so something of about the right size went up into the air and flew out of sight.

The science all works.

The technology involved wasn't really all that impressive in some ways. It's big tanks of fuel and oxidizers. Dewar flasks, LH2, and LOX are pretty well understood. The concept of how the rocket engines work isn't that complicated, it mostly takes a lot of money, a lot of work, and some failures to get it to work. The money spent makes sense in terms of how much money they spent to build this part and that part. The budget money and tax dollars are pretty consistent with what they say they did. The failure rate of various things seems about right.

We know a lot of the technology works because we can see satellites overhead. There are plenty of independent observers of satellites. I've personally seen Hubble, the space shuttle, including a fiery reentry, and a number of other satellites up in the sky. The number of people who've observed these satellites in the right place in the sky pretty much proves something is up there. There are plenty of people using satellite TV systems. The fact that pointing the dish at the right point in the sky triangulates the real position of the satellites and proves it's where they say it is.

The skepticism is about whether we actually put the stuff tog-ether for real and actually got it to work, not about whether the science is right.

In a lot of ways, the moon landing wasn't really that difficult. It just takes a lot of money, a lot of work, some time, and some folks willing to risk their lives to ride the thing.

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01-01-2015 04:37 AM
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DocWils Offline

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Post: #75
RE: Really? Man on the moon.........??
No, the moon landing WAS difficult - they went up in Rube Goldberg contraptions and came home safely. Now THAT was amazing. It was equivalent making a bathtub fly around the world and landing it safely. Fantastic!

The above is the reason there are doubters our there. The above is also the reason I know it happened. That, and back in the day, one of my roommates did photo analysis for NASA on three of the Apollo missions as part of his graduate work at the ETH (NASA sent a lot of stuff to Switzerland for analysis, along with labs everywhere - maybe payback for letting us send a watch to the moon), and I saw the stuff. Even back then I was a very good photographer, with my own lab and a nice Leica, and I can assure you the photos would have been hard to fake. Another roommate (we were pretty hippie back then - actually, it wasn't uncommon to have a lot of roommates - we call them WG) did analysis on moon rock samples (although he said it was closer to moon dust, what he had) and said that while the typos of rocks would be recognizable to us, the isotope make up was all wrong, showing that it was either not of the earth or exposed for a long time, as in millions of years, to an alien environment. At the time I was more interested in the negative environment suits, but of course, I was a med-type and that would have interested me but I spent hours pouring over the photo rolls (NASA sent large-format strips of diapositives) with my roommate.
01-01-2015 06:26 AM
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Post: #76
RE: Really? Man on the moon.........??
Trouble is the moon itself is fake. The moon launch was real, they just landed on an asteroid and took if for the moon. It's called the Columbus effect. The moon is just a projection in the sky. It may date back to Archimedes, who was fond of such tricks, but others contribute it to Kepler, known for his cheek, and some to Adolphe Sax. The Mars rover malfunctioned due to a priority inversion, but that is a different story. Real-time technology can be tricky.

Seriously, I can't be bothered doubting the moon landing. There is so much stuff out there, lots of it pseudo-science at best, some of it scientifically "justified" by questionable means, that I'd be happy to doubt. The moon landing not so much. The up-stream comment is very valid. A stunt like that can't be kept a secret. It would have come out. Too many parties would have benefitted from it coming out, too many people would have been involved (making it nearly impossible to silence matters) etc etc. Does not compute Wink

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(This post was last modified: 01-02-2015 07:27 PM by Visitor.)
01-02-2015 07:27 PM
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