Recording accelerometer, my second "hardware" game changer
I had been doing very well in reducing AHI (to 0.7 for nearly 12 months) while applying advice given to me specifically as well as all I have received from experts and strugglers in posts here and elsewhere. A big part of success was learning to sleep on my side, rather than supine, and avoiding sleeping in a recliner. But I was not convinced I felt as rested as I should, while more and more I began awakening supine, with numbers climbing. I tried various on-back improvisations I would roll over onto, one way or another, and so I considered getting something like that harness (a "Rematee"? is it) with three inflated roll-over obstructions--neighborhood $120 and up. (Reviews I read were very negative for some users and I knew a strong enough backward bra with "rocks" in its three cups would be a simple DIY job.)
Earlier I had read and thought about some form of photography, hoping to get a form with shutter snapping done only upon movement.
Meanwhile, I wanted to learn how much time and how many OA's were due to supine sleep; motion detecting phones and watches seemed to be "the way", but reports were not that convincing. Internet searching for an affordable accelerometer device or DIY approach. That led me to an astute hoser's website (his forum handle elsewhere is "basementdwellinggeek", www.basementdwellinggeek.org) and to his other posts in another Forum. He had written up his successful conceptual trial of a model X16-1D, a data logging 3-axis accelerometer (Manufacturer Gulf Data Concepts). I got one (about $89+), wire brushed my rusty math recall and made a spreadsheet to process the xyz data coordinates of this shock measuring device (a "plumb bob" for me, as it points to "down", that is, to nadir in my application). Early results were always compelling, given that my OAs and their clusters, were dominant. I had to prevent supine sleep.
Knowing that (so slow to learn!), I went to a hospices's thrift store looking for a Levi jacket, heavy denim anyway, to modify and make my own "Rematee". I saw this red-vest thing, $5, made of medium canvas with pockets all over, outside and inside, including a huge one in back. (I guessed it was an earlier day mountain or wilderness road surveyor's vest, maybe custom or self made--well done with heavy snaps but needing its first (?) blood-red laundering, by hand. Anyway, two nested half boxes from Costco fill the back pocket and and make a light, 4.5 x 10 x 13 inch chock forcing one to turn over either belly down or half sitting. Fit is just right--can't gain any or much weight though--and there is so little slack I can't get it to twist out of the way and it does not bother me at all. If I don't get 0.0 AHI it is 0.1 or 0.2 now after some fine tuning of my P10. I do not get on my back.
I selected and post below a reasonably synchronized montage to illustrate use of the data. Some data (time and xyz coordinates) are to the left of the upper graph (data is from the X16 download through USB), the Excel Chart has hidden data analysis plotted; there is a SleepyHead set of relevant breathing charts (all these are from my earliest days using the X16 device before getting the vest). I chose this night because it illustrates so well how OAs, each breathing component and sleep position interrelate. This kind of presentation convinced me I could monitor and then stop supine sleep. Unfortunately, that night I thought I had set the CMS50I oximeter to record, but had not so my pulse, SpO2 and PI are missing here (but will be posted later, showing how the "chock" keeps me on my sides).
2SB
I have no particular qualifications or expertise with respect to the apnea/cpap/sleep related content of my posts beyond my own user experiences and what I've learned from others on this site. Each of us bears the burden of evaluating the validity and applicability of what we read here before acting on it.
Of my 3 once-needed, helpful, and adjunctive devices I have listed, only the accelerometer remains operative (but now idle). My second CMS50I died, too, of old age and the so-so Dreem 2 needs head-positioning band repair--if, indeed, Dreem even supports use of it now.
RE: Recording accelerometer, my second "hardware" game changer
Why not just buy a $50 night vision camera if you want to know how you end up supine and for how long.
RE: Recording accelerometer, my second "hardware" game changer
I'm pretty sure there's an app for your smartphone to display built-in accelerometer's readings.
RE: Recording accelerometer, my second "hardware" game changer
maybe re camera and smartphone, IDK, but I'll bet 2sleepbetta had fun putting his system together and the graphic is pretty nice too! am curious to see what this rematee looks like too.
RE: Recording accelerometer, my second "hardware" game changer
Hello crowtor, silentsnore and sheepless,
Sorry so slow answering. Wrote one answer earlier but blundered and "vanished it'. Had trouble then as now (and one time long ago) trying to use the reply-to-multiple-posts button; typically I could corral one or, one time, two but not all three at once. Just couldn't get the button pressing right somehow. I think Paula has a post on it and tried to find it, but never used the right search term, apparently. Moving on...
crowtor
Thank you. I'd considered the game camera approach but I wanted to: (a) learn more about sleeping positions and unrestful motions; (b) have potential to integrate and synchronize movement data presentations with SleepyHead and the oximeter SpO2 program (as done, but only crudely now, with "cut an paste" like you see above); © didn't want to spend hours watching video or snapshots of myself turning and snoring while accumulating more "trip over" and dust accumulating CPAP stuff near our bed; and (d) I'm not much into any camera techniques or into any of their time logging capabilities and couldn't see a short and sure path to even very limited answers. SH, SpO2, Excel, a "plumb bob x,y,z and time" data table and cutting and pasting I know and can handle.
silentsnore
Thank you for the suggestion. (I only make this reply long and detailed because there is a chance you or a reader can offer to free many captive hostages from my crippled smartphone.)
My old Z10 Blackberry, with BB10 proprietary operating system, has become anal retentive. The only way I can get anything out of it now is by emailing in small batches. Now, it doesn't have any other method for downloading. It has a limited ability with Excel that could be emailed but I am unaware of any data gathering and logging software that might have been available for it (or would work now in its failures). Its now-faulty proprietary download/backup software or some internal electronic component has failed--hours wasted working to find solutions. Best bet, at least $700 for services of a BB knowledgeable hard drive recovery company that unsolders its encryption gate keeper electronics and might be successful (no charge for their failure). Yes the BB has an accelerometer and a magnetometer for screen orientation (at least) and a compass. The Z10 does text, email and contacts, so is now a lot like the old flip phone it replaced years ago. Otherwise, until it dies I'll watch the new technology and model-$ march the short obsolescence trajectory and hope for a Z10 solution.
sheepless
Thank you. You have my number: liking to solve practical puzzles and DIY improvisations. Also, taken the wrong way in our day, I hope my pic of the Rematee for you doesn't get me banned from the Board. My earlier-day surveyors' vest with its integral backpack (full of two nested empty boxes) works like a charm, preventing anything close to supine position.
Many may think my posts indicate I am at least borderline OCD or a hypochondriac in pursuing solutions (not found elsewhere) "on my own", this only after benefitting from reading so many knowledgeable contributors (here on this Board primarily) and searching many research papers. But sleep and other doctors have not been helpful, but have done the old "you are doing your 4 hours and are under 5 AHI so scram and see me in 90 or 180 days" routine. Short nearly sleepless sleep studies too. Only now, in the past few weeks, have I learned that my waaay-dominant OA sleep apnea is nearly all positional (supine sleep).
The illustrative string of long OAs, as in the graphic below, got my new-PAPer's attention early. Progress has been great, but I still get a 60'' to 70" OA from time to time, and shorter but still long ones. All those along with some weird flow rate transitions and curves are strong motivators along with my frequently seeing SpO2 fall off a 95% O2 cliff (to under 90% 27% of the time and under 85% 10% of the time); those drops are while on and after a pee-break and while slowly ramping back up (OA free all that time) with a very low finger-tip perfusion index. Yet my low AHI indicates good breathing as I question how rested I could feel if I didn't move so much--if it is indeed a lot--and wonder whether movements trigger the simultaneous highest spikes in the flow rate and other curves or vice versa. Conclusion and status: stay on the hunt, meanwhile engage as I did today in getting the promise of a referral to the best pulmonologist in town and maybe, just maybe, getting a 3rd but meaningful sleep study (over the past 13 years) one he may see reason to recommend.
Again, thank you all for helpful suggestions,
2SB
[attachment=8639][attachment=8640]
I have no particular qualifications or expertise with respect to the apnea/cpap/sleep related content of my posts beyond my own user experiences and what I've learned from others on this site. Each of us bears the burden of evaluating the validity and applicability of what we read here before acting on it.
Of my 3 once-needed, helpful, and adjunctive devices I have listed, only the accelerometer remains operative (but now idle). My second CMS50I died, too, of old age and the so-so Dreem 2 needs head-positioning band repair--if, indeed, Dreem even supports use of it now.
RE: Recording accelerometer, my second "hardware" game changer
I thought it was an interesting post and some cool integration. Thanks for posting!
GuppyDRV
RE: Recording accelerometer, my second "hardware" game changer
Thanx Guppy DRV.
My post starting this thread stated (emphasis added and slightly edited now), " Unfortunately, that night I thought I had set the CMS50I oximeter to record, but had not so my pulse, SpO2 and PI are missing here (but will be posted later, showing also how the "chock" keeps me on my sides)." Accordingly, I'll take this opportunity to fulfill that in the attachment.
Given that few have been interested in the thread, I shouldn't "flog a dead horse" but will mention now some things I only recently began to notice (particularly in the graphic below) because of earlier preoccupation with keeping AHI down and thinking little about how I felt. No question, I've got much improved sleep through APAP, but I'm not sure it is the best I can do, having forgotten how sleep was before sleep apnea--no complaint, you see.
It strikes me that fixing other sleep disturbance factors could be more beneficial. For that reason I focus in the graphic on how flow rates above about 45 (where that horizontal ruler is set) nearly match 1:1 with simultaneous motions indicated in the blue and red colored graphs of angular positions--some occurring at real shifts of position as in turning/twitching noticeably (even slightly as in the graph) toward one side or the other, while staying on one side. It may be that sleep is great and I just don't know it. On the other hand, in another thread from August 2018, sheepless (who posted above) contributed to (or started) a good discussion of the varieties of Restless Leg [insert a variety of name endings here] problems, what they are and how they are or can be addressed. That thread ties in with my side motivation for doing the accelerometer thing: learn how active I am when asleep now that my dear wife took flight to another bedroom, finding my CPAP sounds troubling.
Anyway, low AHI looks and seems good, but my long sleeps on one side may be an offsetting bad thing. It would be good to know relevant norms and ranges for low AHI PAPers and for healthy people.
I'll just mention other things catching my attention in the graphic. I hope to get answers soon: the flow graph has been showing strange changes in amplitude and in irregularities that continue for significant periods; one can discern that there is a sine wave like wave countour (scalloped pattern) extending downward from -20 (expansion shows large amplitude change in about 1-minute cycles; there are periods (3?) of large and fast Sp02 fluctuations (as much as 12% in other nights) accompanied by nearly equal periods of lowered PI--which I am hoping is normal REM sleep.
Thanks for reading. All comments are welcome.
2SB
[attachment=8657]
I have no particular qualifications or expertise with respect to the apnea/cpap/sleep related content of my posts beyond my own user experiences and what I've learned from others on this site. Each of us bears the burden of evaluating the validity and applicability of what we read here before acting on it.
Of my 3 once-needed, helpful, and adjunctive devices I have listed, only the accelerometer remains operative (but now idle). My second CMS50I died, too, of old age and the so-so Dreem 2 needs head-positioning band repair--if, indeed, Dreem even supports use of it now.
RE: Recording accelerometer, my second "hardware" game changer
Thanx Guppy DRV.
My post starting this thread stated (emphasis added and slightly edited now), " Unfortunately, that night I thought I had set the CMS50I oximeter to record, but had not so my pulse, SpO2 and PI are missing here (but will be posted later, showing also how the "chock" keeps me on my sides)." Accordingly, I'll take this opportunity to fulfill that in the attachment.
Given that few have been interested in the thread, I shouldn't "flog a dead horse" but will mention now some things I only recently began to notice (particularly in the graphic below) because of earlier preoccupation with keeping AHI down and thinking little about how I felt. No question, I've got much improved sleep through APAP, but I'm not sure it is the best I can do, having forgotten how sleep was before sleep apnea--no complaint, you see.
It strikes me that fixing other sleep disturbance factors could be more beneficial. For that reason I focus in the graphic on how flow rates above about 45 (where that horizontal ruler is set) nearly match 1:1 with simultaneous motions indicated in the blue and red colored graphs of angular positions--some occurring at real shifts of position as in turning/twitching noticeably (even slightly as in the graph) toward one side or the other, while staying on one side. It may be that sleep is great and I just don't know it. On the other hand, in another thread from August 2018, sheepless (who posted above) contributed to (or started) a good discussion of the varieties of Restless Leg [insert a variety of name endings here] problems, what they are and how they are or can be addressed. That thread ties in with my side motivation for doing the accelerometer thing: learn how active I am when asleep now that my dear wife took flight to another bedroom, finding my CPAP sounds troubling.
Anyway, low AHI looks and seems good, but my long sleeps on one side may be an offsetting bad thing. It would be good to know relevant norms and ranges for low AHI PAPers and for healthy people.
I'll just mention other things catching my attention in the graphic. I hope to get answers soon: the flow graph has been showing strange changes in amplitude and in irregularities that continue for significant periods; one can discern that there is a sine wave like wave countour (scalloped pattern) extending downward from -20 (expansion shows large amplitude change in about 1-minute cycles; there are periods (3?) of large and fast Sp02 fluctuations (as much as 12% in other nights) accompanied by nearly equal periods of lowered PI--which I am hoping is normal REM sleep.
Thanks for reading. All comments are welcome.
2SB
[attachment=8657]
I have no particular qualifications or expertise with respect to the apnea/cpap/sleep related content of my posts beyond my own user experiences and what I've learned from others on this site. Each of us bears the burden of evaluating the validity and applicability of what we read here before acting on it.
Of my 3 once-needed, helpful, and adjunctive devices I have listed, only the accelerometer remains operative (but now idle). My second CMS50I died, too, of old age and the so-so Dreem 2 needs head-positioning band repair--if, indeed, Dreem even supports use of it now.
RE: Recording accelerometer, my second "hardware" game changer
I'm really interested in your post.
I've done this a long time. I did it in ignorance until I reached this forum and started reading.
If someone asked me to provide Cole's Notes after using cpap for 25 years, I'd say it's about having gear comfortable enough to wear and being persistent and wearing it.
Treatment should consider sleep quality. We all know what it's like to put on a mask, turn our machine on and try to sleep. I was surprised when I learned that the DME's I had had never done this. In fact their feelings were hurt when I suggested they should consider it. I finally found a DME that provides great service and cares. That was over 5 years ago. Now my quest is to find a sleep doc that does the same.
Lanky Leftie is a sleep tech that does wear masks and tests them. He has his own site. He actually wears masks and reports.
Point is: I really appreciate your post. I'm looking for common sense solutions that resolve my OSA condition and help restore high quality sleep.
RE: Recording accelerometer, my second "hardware" game changer
(10-04-2018, 07:51 AM)DaveL Wrote: … did it in ignorance until I reached this forum and started reading. Me too.
… it's about having gear comfortable enough to wear and being persistent and wearing it. Yes, keep looking, giving things and ones adaptability a chance, moving on as you can if it isn't working and you must. But do not quit trying your best; your life--mine anyway--depends on it.
Treatment should consider sleep quality. That's what my focus has shifted to after getting the OA main problem under much better control….
I finally found a DME that provides great service and cares. I've been more fortunate in the DME advisor matter. Now my quest is to find a sleep doc that does the same. Good luck. The members and size of this and the other leading sleep forum indicate to me that being poorly served by my own sleep doctor was only typical. Now my PCP, a hoser himself and the successor (by default) of my one time sleep doc, just touches on the high spots, a fraction of such care matters as I have.
Lanky Leftie is a sleep tech that does wear masks and tests them. He has his own site. He actually wears masks and reports. I looked him up after your mention. Had watched his good videos along the way. Thanks for the reminder.
Point is: I really appreciate your post. I'm looking for common sense solutions that resolve my OSA condition and help restore high quality sleep. Thanks, DaveL; we are on the same page regarding the quest for solutions for getting the best sleep we can.
My fragmentary responses to DaveL are in blue font.
2SB
I have no particular qualifications or expertise with respect to the apnea/cpap/sleep related content of my posts beyond my own user experiences and what I've learned from others on this site. Each of us bears the burden of evaluating the validity and applicability of what we read here before acting on it.
Of my 3 once-needed, helpful, and adjunctive devices I have listed, only the accelerometer remains operative (but now idle). My second CMS50I died, too, of old age and the so-so Dreem 2 needs head-positioning band repair--if, indeed, Dreem even supports use of it now.
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