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Remstare System One 60 series vs. Resmed A 10 for HIM
#1
Well, after receiving my trusty System One 50 series back from repair, I discovered, that despite them replacing the compressor and the heating plate for the humidifier, the humidifier still doesn't work. The LL, upon being informed about it, suggested the problem may lie in the connector with the blower side, which may be true, and suggested I bring it back and take an upgrade model, either going for the 60 series or for the new a10 (black, not for Her, type, which won't be available until April here).

I am assuming that the 60 series is pretty much like the 50 series in terms of noise, reporting types (AHI, RERA, etc), etc (hint - if you don't use the white fine dust filter and only the black sponge filter, the noise goes away - you can also tape the white filter outside the sponge instead of next to the compressor intake tube and no noise, so it is the vibration of the filter that is the problem there) and that the tank echo is also about the same.

While I was impressed by the S9 I had as a loaner while my 50 series was being worked on, I found what it reported to be so limited I simply did not like it compared to the wide variety of information from my Philips machine.
So, while I know the A10 for Her has a broadly similar set of reporting categories to the System One, and reacts rather well to how the flow rate affects the pressure settings, similar to the System One, how does the for Him stack up? And does the now exposed tank mean some echo or air flow noise from the tank? Having it completely enclosed in the S9 was what kept that quiet, and the small exposed surface in the System One does allow for some air echo to be transmitted to the user.

Small note - if they had the For Her, I would have said "no brainer, I'll take it", but I am not so sure when confronted between the choice of the System One 60 series and the A 10 for Him.

Anyone step up from the 50 series to the 60 series (auto with A flex, I assume) or the A10 for Him to tell me what it was like?
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#2
While the PRS1 machine does score more types of events than the PRS1, I don't have a lot of confidence that the more subtle distinctions are actually all that useful.

Flow limitation events are probably fairly meaningful. I'm skeptical about RERA. It reports Periodic Breathing, but a lot of the time, when I look at these it doesn't seem like anything really relevant.

The S9 does report snore and flow limitations as graphs instead of events.

i.e. the PRS1 shows more categories of events, but I'm not that convinced it's that meaningful. It reports way too many events that don't really look that significant when I look at the airflow waveforms. Maybe the detection thresholds are just too low.

I've got a 50 series and a 60 series and don't notice a lot of difference in the subtleties.

I'd probably go for the A10, but it's not a really strong preference.
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Useful links.
Click here for information on the main alternative to CPAP.
If it's midnight and a DME tells you it's dark outside, go and check it yourself.
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#3
I've only used ResMed machines, the thing like about ResMed machines, I don't need a software to tell me how the night went, all the relevant data reported on the screen sleep report. I like the funny faces and 95th percentile unintentional leak, good mask fit is essential for effective therapy ... Mr happy face tells me ... 70th percentile leak is less than 24 L/min

Extra data might be useful but for the untrained eye can be confusing and added worry, we go into panic mode when we see a central apnea or two, The machine have flow senor but you need EEG to detect arousal accurately. The machine have no way knowing if you,re awake or asleep But the AirSense 10 have something called "Auto Ramp" if selected, the machine detect sleep onset and automatically rise to set pressure, I tried it last night and took a minute or two for the pressure to rise to set pressure while I'm still wide awake ...

AirSense 10 AutoSet is much quieter than S9 AutoSet ... you could hear a pin drop
AirSense 10 AutoSet sleek looking machine, air filter and SD card nicely tucked-in on the side of the machine

I've used S9 AutoSet nearly 4 years and proved to be a reliable machine, night after night

I'm on AirSense 10 AutoSet for just over a month, the things don't like about it: (just me, others might like)
The dim lights, screen display on the front (not on the top as the S9), when the climate control set on auto mode, temp is fixed at 27C and cannot be changed up or down
and
The machine raise pressure to the maximum and stay there for most of the night, so i limit the machine how far it can go. I'm not concerned about flow limitation here and there, AHI below 0.5 and as far as I get a good night sleep which its all about





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#4
Zonk, that last bit is rather important for me - if the machine raises the pressure and then hangs there, rather than react according to the actual need minute by minute like the Remstar, then that sort of makes me lean toward just going for the devil I know, seeing as the 60 is probably not really different from the 50.

Got to admit that when I removed the fine dust filter, the 50 quietened down to the point you simply could not hear it - the hose noise was suddenly quite noticeable (it is a Resmed hose, btw, but there is no difference between any of them, so far as I know). To be honest, I am still not certain - I will ask tomorrow if they have the 60 with a heated hose, just to see if that is possible - somewhere here I read that in terms of the humidifier, the new tank lid design seems to work better with a heated hose.

Yet, I was deeply impressed with the S9 as well. Sigh, decisions, decisions.....
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#5
(11-05-2014, 05:13 PM)DocWils Wrote: Zonk, that last bit is rather important for me - if the machine raises the pressure and then hangs there, rather than react according to the actual need minute by minute like the Remstar, then that sort of makes me lean toward just going for the devil I know, seeing as the 60 is probably not really different from the 50.
It seem to me the A10 AutoSet more aggressive when respond to flow limitation than S9 AutoSet, maybe something to do with my breathing pattern. I've read two forum members reported the same thing but more are quite happy with the AirSense 10 AutoSet ...... as they say
"the proof of the pudding is in the eating"


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#6
My S9 AutoSet pressure seems to jump up pretty quickly, then decay exponentially unless something triggers it to go higher. It seems that the increased pressure decays about 50% in 20 minutes.

For instance, my base pressure is around 14. If it jumps up by 3 cm to 17, it will slowly decay back to 14 unless something triggers it to go back up. After it jumps to 17, it will drop back to around 15.5 in 20 minutes.

You can see in the waveform when something decides to make it bump back up. There's often no clear event, not even the flow limit graph that indicates why it decided to up the pressure.

My PRS1 tends to pulse up and back down more rapidly. It will pulse from 16 to 17.5 over 3 minutes, then back down to 16 over 1 minute, if it decides it doesn't like the higher pressure.
Get the free SleepyHead software here.
Useful links.
Click here for information on the main alternative to CPAP.
If it's midnight and a DME tells you it's dark outside, go and check it yourself.
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#7
Have used PRS1 260, 750, 760, I like how it reacts, I like it's predictability and I like the hunt and peck (as they call it) algorithm that it uses. Sadly I have no experience at all with the S9 or A10 for sake of comparison.
If everyone thinks alike, then someone isn't thinking.
Everyone knows something, together we could know everything.
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#8
Questions put by "Sleep Review" and answers by Fisher & Paykel, DeVilbiss, ResMed, and Philips Respironics about auto algorithm of their machines http://www.apneaboard.com/forums/Thread-...y-Pressure

If RobySue is around, she can provide us with much information about the difference between ResMed and Philips Respironics auto-algorithm
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#9
Wife uses a 550 I have the 560. Both are fine machines. The 560 has a slightly improved alogoyithm which makes it a tad faster to respond to events than the 550. And a few option like opti start which calculates your best min pressure over thirty hours and resets to that if you turn it on. If no events happen after a bit it will drop to the preset min pressure. Other words it will tell you what start pressure it should be starting at but unless you reset your min pressure it wont stay there all night.

Mine calculated a rise from 6 to 8 min. My top pressure was 15. Had it reset to 8 and left opti start on to see and its never suggested anything higher, or lower.

Other than that and being able to get much more humidity with the heated hose mode than the System one mode not a ton of difference in the two.
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#10
I called today and asked if they could indeed provide a heated hose for me. The biggest objection I have about the System One, I think, is the daft tank design - firstly, the little tiny recessed heating plate means that water is always wasted, since about 1.5 mm is always left in the tank when it works it's way down, no matter what, and that can leave a dry throat in the morning if the water evaporates before the session is out - the S9 tank heats the entire bottom, and that makes more sense - I often feel with the System One that I run it down to the bottom around 20 minutes before I wake, and of course, there is still usable water there that could have spared me a sore throat. And of course, the exposed tank means echo noise, something I became strongly aware of once I switched back to it after the S9 for the week. Perhaps a heated hose and me being less thrifty with my water ( I always fill the tank half way, as that is enough at 4 for a full night) might be the ticket. I do like the System One as a machine - it has some quirks that you need to get used to, and I found the S9 to be a gentler pressure, if that makes sense, but with them replacing the machine altogether now, instead of being locked in to it for another two years on my old machine, I will be locked in for 5 years, and of course that sort of makes me wonder what is the best way to go. And with my luck, 30 hours after I take delivery of a new System one, Philips will announce a new improved version to be released in May....

Zonk, I had a look at the Sleep Review link, and it was very interesting and informative, especially in how each manufacturer thinks, but alas, so out of date I doubt that much would hold true for current models of each machine - considerable changes in algorithms and scoring sensibility have certainly been evidenced in the A10 compared to the S8, and I am pretty sure this is true of all manufacturers. Still on the fence, I think. Tomorrow I guess they will present both machines and I will decide, but again, your statement about how rapidly it raises the pressure and stays there does turn me form the A10 - I wonder if the For Her also does that?
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