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ResMed S+ unboxing
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stanleydean Offline

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Machine: Resmart CPAP
Mask Type: Full face mask
Mask Make & Model: Drive Medical Comfort Fit Deluxe
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Other Comments: No downloadable software available for Resmart. Partial data available via icodeconnect.com

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Location: Central Florida

Post: #11
RE: ResMed S+ unboxing
Thanks Frank for sharing this. "The gadgeteer" web site also has an interesting review of this item.

Stan
03-23-2016 10:14 AM
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Carbon Offline

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Machine: Resmed Airsense 10
Mask Type: Nasal pillows
Mask Make & Model: Resmed Airfit P10
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CPAP Pressure: 10-13
CPAP Software: SleepyHead

Other Comments: EPR 3cm, Autoramp from 8cm

Sex: Male
Location: Australia

Post: #12
RE: ResMed S+ unboxing
I've had mine up and running for a few days now. The "Smart Alarm" seems to work well. Basically the idea is it goes off at the end of a period of time you specify, but will sound earlier in that period if it detects you are going from light to deep sleep. Put another way, its approach is that it is better to be woken up from light sleep a bit earlier, than being woken from what might randomly happen to be deep sleep at a set time of the morning. Anecdotally, thats worked for me nicely so far, and if that was the only thing that works well, it might be enough to justify having it.

As to sensitivity, the waveform clearly shows the lub-dub of cardiac cycle even through a pillow! So its probably not missing much movement. The sensor waveform also registers me slowly wriggling my foot, so periodic leg movement could muck it all up. I'm not sure it sees me breathing while on my back, but I am a side-sleeper, so for me its not a potential issue

I presume it figures REM sleep from a combination of an erratic breathing pattern vs lack of much other spontaneous movement - my eyeballing of sleepyhead data infers it might be fairly close on this. I show up to 8 "awakenings" a night, of which I am aware of maybe 2-3. A couple of these seem to correspond to 20 sec apnoeas, and some seem random - that could be periodic leg movement? I'm going to get a cheap IR camera to check that out.

I look forward to your analysis Frank
03-23-2016 04:37 PM
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Carbon Offline

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Joined: Feb 2016

Machine: Resmed Airsense 10
Mask Type: Nasal pillows
Mask Make & Model: Resmed Airfit P10
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CPAP Pressure: 10-13
CPAP Software: SleepyHead

Other Comments: EPR 3cm, Autoramp from 8cm

Sex: Male
Location: Australia

Post: #13
RE: ResMed S+ unboxing
I've been using this for 7 days now in the quest to find something that can measure sleep quality given retail EEG's don't exist at the moment.
I offer some comparison vs Sleephead, and also vs a cheapy $80 wi-fi time-stamped intra-red video camera pointed from high above bed head at my legs + Voila for continuous screen capture for last 2 days (I have periodic leg movement). It doesn't take long to review a whole night at x30-60 playback

My overall impression is that the S+ is handy, but gives a surprising negative correlation with Sleepyhead (albeit on a short series versus low AHI's). I can't really guage if it reasonably identifies REM sleep, but it maybe OK for deep sleep (with caveats), and seems to identify "Awake" pretty well, even if I am not aware of short periods of this.

My overall S+ data shows adequate sleep time averaging 7.0 hours, + 50 min awake time. I average 4 awakenings a night (2-8) - I am only aware of 1-2 of these. My "REM sleep" is only 82% of predicted (49-91%) and "Deep sleep" at 91% predicted (71-100%). Overall S+ "Sleep score" 89% (85-97)
My Sleepyhead AHI for the same period is 1.0 (0.5-1.62).

Correlation coefficient AHI and S+ "Sleep score" is MINUS 0.7 (Excel CORREL function). So according to S+, the worse my AHI, the better I sleep!

S+ vs Sleepyhead
The grossest data is accurate - disconnecting/ getting out of bed vs "Awake" -spot on.

Unaware/ unremembered "Awake" periods - correlate with lots of movement on IR camera - probably true

Time to sleep onset pretty good too - S+ vs when Autoset 10 autoramp starts - usually agree within a minute or two

MY AHI is usually under one, so not a lot to look at there, but at least 1/2 my centrals show as a big breath or two before rolling over in bed (confirmed on IR camera.) These tend to correlate with awakenings or "Light sleep" so that looks OK

The rest of my comparison is vs IR camera on my legs

"Deep sleep" looks to be absence of gross movement when asleep, combined with what looks to be fairly steady respiratory rate on Sleepyhead. Fine movements have no effect on "Deep sleep".
Absence of steady breathing while laying still doesn't seem to register as "Deep sleep" (so you can't fool it laying awake)

Possible artefacts in "deep sleep" measurement.
1. wife rolling over close to me and her being in "Light sleep" registers me as being in "Light sleep" despite me not moving/ changing respiration = underestimates my deep sleep.
2. I do have periodic leg movement that occurs in long runs 20-80 minutes (on the camera) with no change in "Deep sleep". Without EEG, impossible to tell if PLM irrelevant, or causing micro-arousals - the latter would mean "Deep sleep" is overestimated.

"REM sleep" - basically little idea. Video looks similar to gross movements of light sleep, maybe without major position changes. Breathing can be choppy or regular. My PLM can occur in "REM sleep". I don't know if I can bring myself to video my eyes when asleep - looking at my own legs is weird enough! The "REM sleep" number seems to have some relation to how fatigued I feel by day, but I did not keep an actual score to document that.

So my impression is the smart alarm seems good (one post up), "Deep sleep" could be OK as long as a partner doesn't get too close (and you don't have PLM), can't comment much on REM.

I'd be great if you can sort out a data-export Frank - eyeballing this stuff is very rough-and-ready!
(This post was last modified: 03-26-2016 10:01 PM by Carbon.)
03-26-2016 09:58 PM
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FrankNichols Offline

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Joined: Mar 2016

Machine: AirSense 10 Autoset
Mask Type: Full face mask
Mask Make & Model: Resmed F10 and/or P10
Humidifier: Builtin
CPAP Pressure: 17-19
CPAP Software: ResScan SleepyHead Other Software

Other Comments: I've figured out how to get my AHI down to 5, I quit sleeping!

Sex: Male
Location: Live Oak, Florida

Post: #14
RE: ResMed S+ unboxing
(03-26-2016 09:58 PM)Carbon Wrote:  I've been using this for 7 days now in the quest to find something that can measure sleep quality given retail EEG's don't exist at the moment.
I offer some comparison vs Sleephead, and also vs a cheapy $80 wi-fi time-stamped intra-red video camera pointed from high above bed head at my legs + Voila for continuous screen capture for last 2 days (I have periodic leg movement). It doesn't take long to review a whole night at x30-60 playback

My overall impression is that the S+ is handy, but gives a surprising negative correlation with Sleepyhead (albeit on a short series versus low AHI's). I can't really guage if it reasonably identifies REM sleep, but it maybe OK for deep sleep (with caveats), and seems to identify "Awake" pretty well, even if I am not aware of short periods of this.

My overall S+ data shows adequate sleep time averaging 7.0 hours, + 50 min awake time. I average 4 awakenings a night (2-8) - I am only aware of 1-2 of these. My "REM sleep" is only 82% of predicted (49-91%) and "Deep sleep" at 91% predicted (71-100%). Overall S+ "Sleep score" 89% (85-97)
My Sleepyhead AHI for the same period is 1.0 (0.5-1.62).

Correlation coefficient AHI and S+ "Sleep score" is MINUS 0.7 (Excel CORREL function). So according to S+, the worse my AHI, the better I sleep!

S+ vs Sleepyhead
The grossest data is accurate - disconnecting/ getting out of bed vs "Awake" -spot on.

Unaware/ unremembered "Awake" periods - correlate with lots of movement on IR camera - probably true

Time to sleep onset pretty good too - S+ vs when Autoset 10 autoramp starts - usually agree within a minute or two

MY AHI is usually under one, so not a lot to look at there, but at least 1/2 my centrals show as a big breath or two before rolling over in bed (confirmed on IR camera.) These tend to correlate with awakenings or "Light sleep" so that looks OK

The rest of my comparison is vs IR camera on my legs

"Deep sleep" looks to be absence of gross movement when asleep, combined with what looks to be fairly steady respiratory rate on Sleepyhead. Fine movements have no effect on "Deep sleep".
Absence of steady breathing while laying still doesn't seem to register as "Deep sleep" (so you can't fool it laying awake)

Possible artefacts in "deep sleep" measurement.
1. wife rolling over close to me and her being in "Light sleep" registers me as being in "Light sleep" despite me not moving/ changing respiration = underestimates my deep sleep.
2. I do have periodic leg movement that occurs in long runs 20-80 minutes (on the camera) with no change in "Deep sleep". Without EEG, impossible to tell if PLM irrelevant, or causing micro-arousals - the latter would mean "Deep sleep" is overestimated.

"REM sleep" - basically little idea. Video looks similar to gross movements of light sleep, maybe without major position changes. Breathing can be choppy or regular. My PLM can occur in "REM sleep". I don't know if I can bring myself to video my eyes when asleep - looking at my own legs is weird enough! The "REM sleep" number seems to have some relation to how fatigued I feel by day, but I did not keep an actual score to document that.

So my impression is the smart alarm seems good (one post up), "Deep sleep" could be OK as long as a partner doesn't get too close (and you don't have PLM), can't comment much on REM.

I'd be great if you can sort out a data-export Frank - eyeballing this stuff is very rough-and-ready!

That is a great amount of info - thank you for posting it. I have 3 days of recording now and I am expecting to get my AirSense 10 Elite next week, so I can start comparing also.

I had not looked at the data feed possibility, but I will start looking into it tomorrow.

My "impression" of the S+ data is that it is fairly accurate when it works - meaning when nothing unusual happens, like my wife rolling into the scene, or my legs don't bounce around. I also question the REM state measure. In my initial sleep study I only had 1 short period of REM, and the S+ is reporting several each night.

I don't use the alarm yet, and I have found if I wake and lay there thinking for a while (15 minutes or so) it does not always register that I am awake.

More later, thanks again.
03-26-2016 10:12 PM
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Carbon Offline

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Joined: Feb 2016

Machine: Resmed Airsense 10
Mask Type: Nasal pillows
Mask Make & Model: Resmed Airfit P10
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CPAP Pressure: 10-13
CPAP Software: SleepyHead

Other Comments: EPR 3cm, Autoramp from 8cm

Sex: Male
Location: Australia

Post: #15
RE: ResMed S+ unboxing
Doh - I made a mistake regarding correlation as I forgot I was correlating one number that goes up vs another that goes down when things move in the same direction. The higher the AHI, the lower the S+ sleep score.

The CORRELATION of -0.7 between SleepyHead AHI and S+ sleep score is therefore pretty GOOD.


Frank, the alarm only goes off if the S+ senses you are about to go back to deep sleep, or the end of the time window, whichever comes first. Hence, it does leave you laying there awake or in light sleep. If you start to go to deep sleep again, it will wake you "early".
03-27-2016 12:38 AM
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FrankNichols Offline

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Joined: Mar 2016

Machine: AirSense 10 Autoset
Mask Type: Full face mask
Mask Make & Model: Resmed F10 and/or P10
Humidifier: Builtin
CPAP Pressure: 17-19
CPAP Software: ResScan SleepyHead Other Software

Other Comments: I've figured out how to get my AHI down to 5, I quit sleeping!

Sex: Male
Location: Live Oak, Florida

Post: #16
RE: ResMed S+ unboxing
Well, I think I found an annoying "feature".

I didn't get to sleep until after midnight one night. I got 5 hours sleep that night. The got to bed around 11 that night, and got 7 hours sleep. However, apparently since the first sleep period and the second sleep period were both on the same "date" (Mar 27th) only the first one was sent to mySplus.org so I can only view the first one not the second online. I have not found a way to force and update to be pushed online.

Annoying, since I frequently do't go to sleep until after midnight, which will register that nights sleep as the next days...

Frank

I am not a Medical professional and I don't play one on the internet.
Started CPAP Therapy April 5, 2016
I'd Rather Be Sleeping
03-28-2016 11:19 AM
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eseedhouse Offline

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Machine: ResMed Airsense 10 Autoset
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CPAP Software: SleepyHead

Other Comments: Also on supplemental O2 at 3L/min. while sleeping.

Sex: Male
Location: Victoria, British Columbia

Post: #17
RE: ResMed S+ unboxing
Your machine doesn't do that. A ResMed CPAP "day" runs from 12 noon on day 1 to 12 noon on the next calendar day. Check to make sure the time is set correctly, and if it isn't, fix that.

The clocks on these machines "drift" fairly quickly and should be checked and reset at least every couple of weeks. Since they come with a built in cell phone they could easily be programmed to check the time over the cell network frequently, but they don't bother with that. Eye on the bottom line I suspect.

Ed Seedhouse
VA7SDH

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Actually you know, it is what it isn't.
03-28-2016 03:01 PM
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FrankNichols Offline

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Machine: AirSense 10 Autoset
Mask Type: Full face mask
Mask Make & Model: Resmed F10 and/or P10
Humidifier: Builtin
CPAP Pressure: 17-19
CPAP Software: ResScan SleepyHead Other Software

Other Comments: I've figured out how to get my AHI down to 5, I quit sleeping!

Sex: Male
Location: Live Oak, Florida

Post: #18
RE: ResMed S+ unboxing
(03-28-2016 03:01 PM)eseedhouse Wrote:  Your machine doesn't do that. A ResMed CPAP "day" runs from 12 noon on day 1 to 12 noon on the next calendar day. Check to make sure the time is set correctly, and if it isn't, fix that.

The clocks on these machines "drift" fairly quickly and should be checked and reset at least every couple of weeks. Since they come with a built in cell phone they could easily be programmed to check the time over the cell network frequently, but they don't bother with that. Eye on the bottom line I suspect.

Thanks, I was referring to the ResMed S+ which is not a CPAP machine but a sleep monitoring machine I am evaluating for use with my CPAP machine. The S+ uses RADAR like technology to monitor your sleeping movements and then fairly accurately guesses (actually better than guess) what level of sleep you are in, Light, REM, Deep, etc.

The data is recorded on a mobile device locally which is paired to the S+ via Bluetooth. Then the S+ App running on the mobile device (iPad in my case) is sent to ResMed and they post it with a detail analyses on their website.

The time is my iPads time, and it is accurate. The problem seems to be their app doesn't always push the data up to the website. and it doesn't seem to deal with two sleep cycles starting on the same date.

Anyway, that is not a major problem, just an annoyance.

I am not a Medical professional and I don't play one on the internet.
Started CPAP Therapy April 5, 2016
I'd Rather Be Sleeping
03-28-2016 03:06 PM
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Carbon Offline

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Machine: Resmed Airsense 10
Mask Type: Nasal pillows
Mask Make & Model: Resmed Airfit P10
Humidifier: Resmed
CPAP Pressure: 10-13
CPAP Software: SleepyHead

Other Comments: EPR 3cm, Autoramp from 8cm

Sex: Male
Location: Australia

Post: #19
RE: ResMed S+ unboxing
Hi Frank. Updates to the S+ website seem very slow - mine randomly take anywhere from 2-8 hours to upload, so maybe your data will turn up yet.

I took a nap one day for 1/2 hour and ended up with that showing on the site along with the nights sleep, so it does seem to record everything you tell it to. However the nap upload was annoying as the sleep score of "12" for the nap still shows and can't be deleted, so I wont make the mistake of recording naps again.
03-28-2016 03:48 PM
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FrankNichols Offline

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Machine: AirSense 10 Autoset
Mask Type: Full face mask
Mask Make & Model: Resmed F10 and/or P10
Humidifier: Builtin
CPAP Pressure: 17-19
CPAP Software: ResScan SleepyHead Other Software

Other Comments: I've figured out how to get my AHI down to 5, I quit sleeping!

Sex: Male
Location: Live Oak, Florida

Post: #20
RE: ResMed S+ unboxing
Carbon,

It did eventually show up today, and the second of the two for the same date (27th) showed up as tomorrows date (29th). And yeah, I tried "pushing" it up by doing a zero test for 10 minutes. Meaning I wasn't even in the room, and all readings were zero - now that is stuck in my data - lol.

I am not a Medical professional and I don't play one on the internet.
Started CPAP Therapy April 5, 2016
I'd Rather Be Sleeping
03-28-2016 03:51 PM
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