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ResMed S9 Elite -- MANY apnea events still
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robysue Online
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Post: #51
RE: ResMed S9 Elite -- MANY apnea events still
(06-11-2014 07:39 AM)jcarerra Wrote:  BUT
Data shows breathing MUCH more uniform
I ONLY HAD 3 EVENTS AND NO CLUSTERS.
AHI 0.6
But terrible sleep.
Go figure.
There's more to getting a good night's sleep than having a great AHI.

I do plan on writing more about the other data and the bad sleep thing when I get a chance.

Question: How long have you been using the machine? I know I should know this, but I don't want to have to go back through everything.
06-11-2014 11:45 AM
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jcarerra Offline

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Post: #52
RE: ResMed S9 Elite -- MANY apnea events still
Sorry for the delay; was out at a meeting, then lunch.

Answer is 13 days with CPAP.
06-11-2014 01:03 PM
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zonk Offline

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Post: #53
RE: ResMed S9 Elite -- MANY apnea events still
(06-11-2014 11:45 AM)robysue Wrote:  There's more to getting a good night's sleep than having a great AHI.
Absolutely, 'how you feel' is important too

AHI is the bench mark used to tell whether the treatment is effective or pressure setting is optimal
For that reason we insist on data capable machines otherwise like saying 'what you don,t know cannot hurt you' or something like that

Without AHI, there is no diagnoses of sleep apnea, anyway the experts have different opinions too -
The Apnea-Hypopnea Index: Useful or Useless ?
http://www.apneaboard.com/forums/Thread-...or-Useless
(This post was last modified: 06-11-2014 05:10 PM by zonk.)
06-11-2014 04:40 PM
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jcarerra Offline

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Post: #54
RE: ResMed S9 Elite -- MANY apnea events still
Zonk, I somewhat disagree about so much emphasis on AHI...
"AHI is the bench mark used to tell whether the treatment is effective or pressure setting is optimal"

I think it is good as a quick measure, but there is a truth that bothers me a lot. You can have a situation where there is a concentrated cluster of very bad events, but the remainder of a long night's sleep has no or very few AHI's. As a result, the AHI is well in the "acceptable" range, but the person could have died during the cluster.

I think a much more revealing measure would be a sliding statistic of event count computed for every one hour period beginning each minute, then look at the max, min, mean, and median of that set of numbers--especially the max, which you could view as "the worst hour." Lots more computation in that, but it is trivial for software to do it. That would be 480 numbers in an 8-hour sleep....wait: the last hour you don't have a full 60 minutes, so when you hit 7 hours, you'd have to stop computing this measure. Thus it would be 420 numbers (not for us to look at, for the software to apply the computations to).
(This post was last modified: 06-11-2014 06:36 PM by jcarerra.)
06-11-2014 06:33 PM
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PaulaO2 Offline
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Post: #55
RE: ResMed S9 Elite -- MANY apnea events still
Except far too many times people have great AHI but still feel like crap. The idea is to be holistic in looking at sleep apnea treatment. They, and ourselves, need to look at the entire picture, not just one, or even two things, but the entire thing. Mood, medication, stress level, food, drink, environment, weather, AHI, mask, leak rate, flow rate, flow limitation. All that. When even one of these things "isn't right", then something is wrong. If the AHI is good but the user is feeling bad, then something is wrong.

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INFORMATION ON APNEA BOARD FORUMS OR ON APNEABOARD.COM SHOULD NOT BE CONSIDERED AS MEDICAL ADVICE. ALWAYS SEEK THE ADVICE OF A PHYSICIAN BEFORE SEEKING TREATMENT FOR MEDICAL CONDITIONS, INCLUDING SLEEP APNEA. INFORMATION POSTED ON THE APNEA BOARD WEB SITE AND FORUMS ARE PERSONAL OPINION ONLY AND NOT NECESSARILY A STATEMENT OF FACT.
06-11-2014 07:24 PM
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jcarerra Offline

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Post: #56
RE: ResMed S9 Elite -- MANY apnea events still
(06-11-2014 07:24 PM)PaulaO2 Wrote:  Except far too many times people have great AHI but still feel like crap. The idea is to be holistic in looking at sleep apnea treatment. They, and ourselves, need to look at the entire picture, not just one, or even two things, but the entire thing. Mood, medication, stress level, food, drink, environment, weather, AHI, mask, leak rate, flow rate, flow limitation. All that. When even one of these things "isn't right", then something is wrong. If the AHI is good but the user is feeling bad, then something is wrong.

I totally agree with that, but only a very small percentage of users can even access the data picture, much less interpret it and factor in all those other things.
(This post was last modified: 06-11-2014 08:31 PM by jcarerra.)
06-11-2014 08:25 PM
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PaytonA Offline
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Post: #57
RE: ResMed S9 Elite -- MANY apnea events still
(06-11-2014 06:33 PM)jcarerra Wrote:  Zonk, I somewhat disagree about so much emphasis on AHI...
"AHI is the bench mark used to tell whether the treatment is effective or pressure setting is optimal"

I think it is good as a quick measure, but there is a truth that bothers me a lot. You can have a situation where there is a concentrated cluster of very bad events, but the remainder of a long night's sleep has no or very few AHI's. As a result, the AHI is well in the "acceptable" range, but the person could have died during the cluster.

I think a much more revealing measure would be a sliding statistic of event count computed for every one hour period beginning each minute, then look at the max, min, mean, and median of that set of numbers--especially the max, which you could view as "the worst hour." Lots more computation in that, but it is trivial for software to do it. That would be 480 numbers in an 8-hour sleep....wait: the last hour you don't have a full 60 minutes, so when you hit 7 hours, you'd have to stop computing this measure. Thus it would be 420 numbers (not for us to look at, for the software to apply the computations to).

Actually no. What is truly more revealing is looking at the detailed data in graphical form, which is advocated a lot on this forum.

Best Regards,

PaytonA
06-11-2014 08:30 PM
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jcarerra Offline

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Post: #58
RE: ResMed S9 Elite -- MANY apnea events still
^^ Well, yes. But that is a wholly different thing. we were talking about AHI and I was addressing that and that alone--not "the whole, big picture" which OF COURSE gives a more accurate and complete understanding. If THAT is the topic, then talking about a single number or two or four is not even on the table.

But people DO talk about AHI. And I was opinionating that, for me, there are better QUICK VIEW numbers that could be generated.

Again allowing that looking at EVERYTHING is far better.

So, I am contrasting QUICK VIEW NUMBERS (which would never be eliminated from the scene simply because more data is better) with NOT QUICK VIEW--LOOK AT EVERYTHING.
06-11-2014 08:39 PM
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zonk Offline

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Post: #59
RE: ResMed S9 Elite -- MANY apnea events still
(06-11-2014 07:24 PM)PaulaO2 Wrote:  The idea is to be holistic in looking at sleep apnea treatment.
Our friend 'Ltmedic66' said more or less the same thing
I wonder where he is now, I hope he is doing well

Sorry of wondering off, brought back memories
06-11-2014 08:45 PM
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ShelaghDB Offline

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Post: #60
RE: ResMed S9 Elite -- MANY apnea events still
Quote:you can get a perfectly servicable CMS50D+ (the plus is important) for 50$ from amazon.... less from other places.

the best price I found on them was about 30$ from aliexpress/alibaba in china, I just received a CMS50I from them, cost me 90$ delivered... it's the wrist mounted model that has a clock in it and records multiple sessions.... handy.


For what its worth, I too can verify that AliExpress/AliBababa in China are great to deal with. I have ordered a couple of items from them and haven't ever had any problems.
I wouldn't hesitate to order what I needed there.
06-11-2014 09:24 PM
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