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Resmed AirFit F10
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DNB128 Offline

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Posts: 37
Joined: Feb 2014

Machine: Resperonics System One A-flex
Mask Type: Full face mask
Mask Make & Model: AirFit F10
Humidifier: Resperonics System One
CPAP Pressure: 9-18
CPAP Software: SleepyHead

Other Comments:

Sex: Female
Location: Rochester, MN

Post: #31
RE: Resmed AirFit F10
About Remzzzs and liners.... I do use RemZzzzs, and I found a DIY liner pattern online - it's nearly the same as the Remzzzs. I bought the largest men's t-shirt I could find at the Goodwill store for $3, and have been making my own liners. I still have some Remzzzs, and I wash all of my liners after one use... they go in a mesh wash bag with my regular laundry and when they come out of the washer I lay them out flat to dry, then iron them to help them keep their shape and reuse them. Currently have more than enough, when these start wearing out I will make more. No sewing needed, really easy to do.
06-06-2014 11:09 AM
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PaytonA Offline
Wiki Editor
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Posts: 3,016
Joined: Dec 2013

Machine: ResMed S9 VPAP Auto
Mask Type: Full face mask
Mask Make & Model: Resmed Mirage Quattro
Humidifier: H5i(distilled-top up)
CPAP Pressure: VAuto MinE14.0 MaxI 20.6 PS4.0
CPAP Software: ResScan SleepyHead

Other Comments:

Sex: Male
Location: Orange County,California

Post: #32
RE: Resmed AirFit F10
(06-06-2014 12:44 AM)Raypat Wrote:  
(06-04-2014 06:06 PM)DNB128 Wrote:  RayPat,
The suggestion about mask liners is worth trying before you give up on the F10, which is what I'm using now. I started CPAP in Feb 2014, using the Quattro Air, and couldn't control the leaks, though everything else about it was wonderful, the fit was perfect, etc. About a month ago I tried the F10

OK, seems I'm still on the learning curve here. I wasn't aware that such things as mask liners were available, so lets find out a bit more on the subject then! I had a look around on the web and it appears that there are or were two product names that crop up, namely, Reszzz and Quietus, although it seems that the manufactures of Quietus have folded and the product is not going to be around anymore!

The Reszzz liners are a use once item and cannot be laundered after use
So saying, are there any other 'liners' out there specifically designed to assist with sealing air-leaks.
I am really quite happy with the over all design and lightness of the ResMed F10 and am reluctant to change over to something more bulky! So..any assistance regarding liners etc would be greatly appreciated. Shy

One other commercially available mask liner is the Padacheek mask liner.
06-06-2014 11:33 AM
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retired_guy Offline

Preferred Members-2

Posts: 2,744
Joined: Jan 2014

Machine: ResMed S9 Autoset
Mask Type: Nasal pillows
Mask Make & Model: Resmed Airfit P10
Humidifier: ResMed
CPAP Pressure: 10.6/14, EPR 3
CPAP Software: ResScan SleepyHead

Other Comments: Is it bedtime yet?

Sex: Male
Location: Beautiful, albeit very wet Oregon Coast

Post: #33
RE: Resmed AirFit F10
(06-06-2014 11:33 AM)PaytonA Wrote:  
(06-06-2014 12:44 AM)Raypat Wrote:  
(06-04-2014 06:06 PM)DNB128 Wrote:  RayPat,
The suggestion about mask liners is worth trying before you give up on the F10, which is what I'm using now. I started CPAP in Feb 2014, using the Quattro Air, and couldn't control the leaks, though everything else about it was wonderful, the fit was perfect, etc. About a month ago I tried the F10

OK, seems I'm still on the learning curve here. I wasn't aware that such things as mask liners were available, so lets find out a bit more on the subject then! I had a look around on the web and it appears that there are or were two product names that crop up, namely, Reszzz and Quietus, although it seems that the manufactures of Quietus have folded and the product is not going to be around anymore!

The Reszzz liners are a use once item and cannot be laundered after use
So saying, are there any other 'liners' out there specifically designed to assist with sealing air-leaks.
I am really quite happy with the over all design and lightness of the ResMed F10 and am reluctant to change over to something more bulky! So..any assistance regarding liners etc would be greatly appreciated. Shy

One other commercially available mask liner is the Padacheek mask liner.

Actually I have very successfully laundered the Remzzz liners. I never bought into the use-once thingy either. I used a liner for 2 or 3 days until I thought it was sufficiently yucky, then gave it to Mrs. Retired_guy to "make new."

I did buy a Pad-a-Cheek too. It's nice because it wraps around the mask really well so that it's much harder to dislodge it.

Then there's the option of taking one of your Remzzz as a pattern, and cut out your own liners from a chunk of cotton fabric, or a t-shirt.
06-06-2014 11:53 AM
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Raypat Offline

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Posts: 28
Joined: May 2014

Machine: Resmed s9 autoset
Mask Type: Full face mask
Mask Make & Model: F&P Simplus L & Resmed F10
Humidifier: H5i
CPAP Pressure: 9-20
CPAP Software: ResScan SleepyHead

Other Comments: Ive been told that I have been making loud noises at night then going all quiet! Wife toll me so

Sex: Male
Location: Kingaroy, Queensland, Australia

Post: #34
RE: Resmed AirFit F10
           
(06-06-2014 11:53 AM)retired_guy Wrote:  [quote='PaytonA' pid='71558' dateline='1402072388']
[quote='Raypat' pid='71523' dateline='1402033440']

OK, seems I'm still on the learning curve here.

I have loaded the sleepyhead software onto my Mac and had a look at mu data that has been stored to-date. Here's the thing! What am I looking at here? I am from a engineering background and Ive dealt with graphical data before but I do need a heads up as far as the correlation is concerned. I think my data is being effected due to mask air leaks but then that just me best guessing what I'm looking at. Anyone out there want to help?
06-12-2014 10:39 PM
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retired_guy Offline

Preferred Members-2

Posts: 2,744
Joined: Jan 2014

Machine: ResMed S9 Autoset
Mask Type: Nasal pillows
Mask Make & Model: Resmed Airfit P10
Humidifier: ResMed
CPAP Pressure: 10.6/14, EPR 3
CPAP Software: ResScan SleepyHead

Other Comments: Is it bedtime yet?

Sex: Male
Location: Beautiful, albeit very wet Oregon Coast

Post: #35
RE: Resmed AirFit F10
(06-12-2014 10:39 PM)Raypat Wrote:  
(06-06-2014 11:53 AM)retired_guy Wrote:  [quote='PaytonA' pid='71558' dateline='1402072388']
[quote='Raypat' pid='71523' dateline='1402033440']

OK, seems I'm still on the learning curve here.

I have loaded the sleepyhead software onto my Mac and had a look at mu data that has been stored to-date. Here's the thing! What am I looking at here? I am from a engineering background and Ive dealt with graphical data before but I do need a heads up as far as the correlation is concerned. I think my data is being effected due to mask air leaks but then that just me best guessing what I'm looking at. Anyone out there want to help?

Ray, according to the graph you posted you're having virtually no mask leaks. That in itself is kind of a red flag when using a full face mask. How tight is that mask? If it's too tight the discomfort (if you're having any) can contribute to some of the CA's.

But mostly looking at the lovely garden you're growing and seeing your pressure is rocking along at @18, I wonder: Are you sleeping on your back? If so, don't do that for now. Get on your side or at a bare minimum do something to prop up your mattress significantly.

I'm not all that concerned about the CA's because they can be transient when making other changes or experiencing other things. But I'd like to see you be able to get the OA's down.

So my best guess? Get off your back, and loosen up that face mask until it's no longer sucking your brains out.

All wet? Yeah, could be... But that's my best guess.
06-12-2014 10:53 PM
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Raypat Offline

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Posts: 28
Joined: May 2014

Machine: Resmed s9 autoset
Mask Type: Full face mask
Mask Make & Model: F&P Simplus L & Resmed F10
Humidifier: H5i
CPAP Pressure: 9-20
CPAP Software: ResScan SleepyHead

Other Comments: Ive been told that I have been making loud noises at night then going all quiet! Wife toll me so

Sex: Male
Location: Kingaroy, Queensland, Australia

Post: #36
RE: Resmed AirFit F10
(06-12-2014 10:53 PM)retired_guy Wrote:  
(06-12-2014 10:39 PM)Raypat Wrote:  
(06-06-2014 11:53 AM)retired_guy Wrote:  [quote='PaytonA' pid='71558' dateline='1402072388']
[quote='Raypat' pid='71523' dateline='1402033440']

OK, seems I'm still on the learning curve here.

I have loaded the sleepyhead software onto my Mac and had a look at mu data that has been stored to-date. Here's the thing! What am I looking at here? I am from a engineering background and Ive dealt with graphical data before but I do need a heads up as far as the correlation is concerned. I think my data is being effected due to mask air leaks but then that just me best guessing what I'm looking at. Anyone out there want to help?

Ray, according to the graph you posted you're having virtually no mask leaks. That in itself is kind of a red flag when using a full face mask. How tight is that mask? If it's too tight the discomfort (if you're having any) can contribute to some of the CA's.

But mostly looking at the lovely garden you're growing and seeing your pressure is rocking along at @18, I wonder: Are you sleeping on your back? If so, don't do that for now. Get on your side or at a bare minimum do something to prop up your mattress significantly.

I'm not all that concerned about the CA's because they can be transient when making other changes or experiencing other things. But I'd like to see you be able to get the OA's down.

So my best guess? Get off your back, and loosen up that face mask until it's no longer sucking your brains out.

All wet? Yeah, could be... But that's my best guess.

Hello there retired_guy, thanks for getting back to me. From the top, well yes, I do have to cinch up the tabs in-order to prevent the mask from leaking. I used the mask fit function to try and get a maximum seal especially over the bridge of the nose, and on the sides. Not that I have a nose of any distinction so don't know why this area is proving to be such a problem. I also use a gecko nose seal still ave issue while useing it (transfer the leaks to bottom edges of the gecko). I am waiting on getting some Remzzz mask seals to try so that may just solve that problem.
As for sleep positions, no, I am most definitely a side sleeper and a pillar hugger.
I'm at a loss to explain the sawtooth pattern that appears in the event profile but have noticed that it corresponds with the disturbances in both the mask pressure, leaks and flow rate I was wondering if this because of the seal fluttering when leaking?
Regards,
Ray.
06-13-2014 01:15 AM
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retired_guy Offline

Preferred Members-2

Posts: 2,744
Joined: Jan 2014

Machine: ResMed S9 Autoset
Mask Type: Nasal pillows
Mask Make & Model: Resmed Airfit P10
Humidifier: ResMed
CPAP Pressure: 10.6/14, EPR 3
CPAP Software: ResScan SleepyHead

Other Comments: Is it bedtime yet?

Sex: Male
Location: Beautiful, albeit very wet Oregon Coast

Post: #37
RE: Resmed AirFit F10
(06-13-2014 01:15 AM)Raypat Wrote:  Hello there retired_guy, thanks for getting back to me. From the top, well yes, I do have to cinch up the tabs in-order to prevent the mask from leaking. I used the mask fit function to try and get a maximum seal especially over the bridge of the nose, and on the sides. Not that I have a nose of any distinction so don't know why this area is proving to be such a problem. I also use a gecko nose seal still ave issue while useing it (transfer the leaks to bottom edges of the gecko). I am waiting on getting some Remzzz mask seals to try so that may just solve that problem.
As for sleep positions, no, I am most definitely a side sleeper and a pillar hugger.
I'm at a loss to explain the sawtooth pattern that appears in the event profile but have noticed that it corresponds with the disturbances in both the mask pressure, leaks and flow rate I was wondering if this because of the seal fluttering when leaking?
Regards,
Ray.
Well yes, leaks and mask flutters could certainly cause wierd results. But you don't have any leaks, at least on the screenshots you provided. At a pressure of 17 which is roughly what you are running at, and using a full mask, I would expect to see some leakage. Yes, we try to keep the leak to a minimum but some leakage is normal.

I'm wondering if you might benefit from trying a different mask for awhile. Particularly a pillows style mask. I use the P10 and like it a lot and I went to it from a full-face mask that I thought I had to use because I was a "mouth breather" (overused concept that...)

We sort of have to go with what we know, and we know that even at a high flow your events are still too high. So maybe a punt would be appropriate? Think on it.
06-13-2014 12:23 PM
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PaytonA Offline
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Posts: 3,016
Joined: Dec 2013

Machine: ResMed S9 VPAP Auto
Mask Type: Full face mask
Mask Make & Model: Resmed Mirage Quattro
Humidifier: H5i(distilled-top up)
CPAP Pressure: VAuto MinE14.0 MaxI 20.6 PS4.0
CPAP Software: ResScan SleepyHead

Other Comments:

Sex: Male
Location: Orange County,California

Post: #38
RE: Resmed AirFit F10
(06-13-2014 12:23 PM)retired_guy Wrote:  Well yes, leaks and mask flutters could certainly cause wierd results. But you don't have any leaks, at least on the screenshots you provided. At a pressure of 17 which is roughly what you are running at, and using a full mask, I would expect to see some leakage. Yes, we try to keep the leak to a minimum but some leakage is normal.

I'm wondering if you might benefit from trying a different mask for awhile. Particularly a pillows style mask. I use the P10 and like it a lot and I went to it from a full-face mask that I thought I had to use because I was a "mouth breather" (overused concept that...)

We sort of have to go with what we know, and we know that even at a high flow your events are still too high. So maybe a punt would be appropriate? Think on it.

There probably is some leakage. Just that the scale of the Y axis for leakage is compressed enough that it is difficult or maybe impossible to see in that screen shot.

Generally excessive leakage ends up making it difficult for the machine to detect the events, which will probably result in lower than actual event scores

Best regards,

PaytonA
(This post was last modified: 06-13-2014 10:06 PM by PaytonA.)
06-13-2014 10:05 PM
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Raypat Offline

Preferred Members

Posts: 28
Joined: May 2014

Machine: Resmed s9 autoset
Mask Type: Full face mask
Mask Make & Model: F&P Simplus L & Resmed F10
Humidifier: H5i
CPAP Pressure: 9-20
CPAP Software: ResScan SleepyHead

Other Comments: Ive been told that I have been making loud noises at night then going all quiet! Wife toll me so

Sex: Male
Location: Kingaroy, Queensland, Australia

Post: #39
RE: Resmed AirFit F10
Well, I've done two things that were suggested and have seemed to have helped me here. Firstly I maxed out my pressure to 20 and set the lower pressure to 6, that's up from 4! I also eased up the tightness of the mask straps and although I still had leaks I managed to get the AHI numbers into single digits for the first time ever. 4.6 and 6.7 The first night I was using the ResMed F10 and the second night using the F&P Simplus.
So, when I get the Remzzz patches, I will see if that further helps with the sealing issues; and if they work, (I had to purchase a pack of 30 as they have nothing smaller here in Australia!) then will work on reverse engineering them for myself.
Thanks again to all you folks kind enough to take a interest in other peoples problems.
06-15-2014 02:59 AM
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vsheline Offline

Advisory Members

Posts: 1,908
Joined: Jul 2012

Machine: S9 VPAP Adapt (USA Model# 36007, not better 36037 or 36067)
Mask Type: Full face mask
Mask Make & Model: F10 or SimPlus w/ 2Liners. MirageQuatro & Gecko gel pad
Humidifier: H5i
CPAP Pressure: 15 EPAP, PS 5-10
CPAP Software: ResScan

Other Comments: Marfan Syndrome, chronic bradycardia, occasional Cheyne-Stokes Respiration

Sex: Male
Location: California, USA

Post: #40
RE: Resmed AirFit F10
(06-15-2014 02:59 AM)Raypat Wrote:  Well, I've done two things that were suggested and have seemed to have helped me here. Firstly I maxed out my pressure to 20 and set the lower pressure to 6, that's up from 4! I also eased up the tightness of the mask straps and although I still had leaks I managed to get the AHI numbers into single digits for the first time ever. 4.6 and 6.7 The first night I was using the ResMed F10 and the second night using the F&P Simplus.
So, when I get the Remzzz patches, I will see if that further helps with the sealing issues; and if they work, (I had to purchase a pack of 30 as they have nothing smaller here in Australia!) then will work on reverse engineering them for myself.
Thanks again to all you folks kind enough to take a interest in other peoples problems.

Hi Raypat,

I have been using the F10 with RemZzz for a couple weeks now, with good success. For me, the liner completely eliminates mask flapping.

I do not follow directions by RemZzz to pull on and stretch out the liner after putting on the mask, because stretching makes me unable to re-use the liner. I try to avoid stretching the RemZzz, so one liner will last me 2 or 3 days. I plan to make my own liners some day. I've heard material cut from an old teeshirt works better than the overly-stretchy material used by RemZzz.

I am using a "Large" F10 mask with a "Standard" (medium size) headgear, which work fine on my large head.

Pay attention to the breakdown of the AHI. That is, the OAI (average number of obstructive apneas per hr) and the CAI average number of central apneas per hr), and the HI (average number of hypopneas per hr).

Are your CA events happening at all pressures, fairly randomly, or are your CA events mostly happening when the pressure is above a certain pressure?

Your obstructive events are driving your pressures high, so you are not spending much time at the Minimum Pressure (6). Might not make much difference whether minimum is 6 or 8 or 10 if you are not spending much time that low.

It is possible that it will be helpful to slowly raise your minimum closer to your median pressure, so that your pressure will be more constant during the night, but this could help or hurt (might make number of centrals higher).

Keeping EPR low or OFF often lowers the CAI.

The goal is to lower the overall AHI, and also to avoid extremely long apneas, ones over 45 seconds or so. When long apneas occur, make note of whether these are central or obstructive. Raising the Minimum Pressure will tend to avoid obstructive events but may worsen cental events.

I suggest noting in a journal the dates you change any settings, and watching the data for a week or a month between changes. Otherwise it is very easy to be misled by the natural variability of our AHI into thinking our adjustments are helping or hurting.

Take care,
--- Vaughn

Membership in the Advisory Member group should not be understood as in any way implying medical expertise or qualification for advising Sleep Apnea patients concerning their treatment. The Advisory Member group provides advice and suggestions to Apnea Board administrators and staff on matters concerning Apnea Board operation and administrative policies - not on matters concerning treatment for Sleep Apnea. I think it is now too late to change the name of the group but I think Voting Member group would perhaps have been a more descriptive name for the group.
(This post was last modified: 06-15-2014 12:44 PM by vsheline.)
06-15-2014 04:30 AM
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