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Resmed AirSense 10, humidifier discoloring on bottom?
#21
(01-05-2016, 06:03 PM)Jackie1 Wrote: Anyone have this issue? Brand new machine, and using only distilled water.

Geez, I don't know why there's so much misinformation on the board today.

ResMed A10 tanks use stainless steel for the metal parts. Stainless steel does discolor like this.

Stainless steel (and aluminum) are "stainless" because they form a thin, transparent oxide layer on the surface. This prevents any further rusting or oxidation.

In some cases the oxide layer develops a color. Sometimes, this is a rainbow colored area like oil on water, but it can look black. It's mostly a function of how thick the transparent oxide layer. It's an interference pattern phenomenon related to the wavelength of light. This is quite common in stainless steel pots and pans. It's harmless.

Some people have used vinegar with some success, or google discolored stainless steel and look for the cleaning techniques people use for stainless steel cookware.

Some people have reported getting a replacement tank from ResMed for this.

As for why this happens on A10 machines, there are a lot of variations in the manufacturing process and material composition that can make variations in the way the stainless steel tarnishes.

Remember, that you don't drink the water from the water tank. Unless whatever that material is turns into a gas and flows, it doesn't go out the hose into your lungs.
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#22
(01-07-2016, 03:30 AM)player Wrote: Bacteria will explode in warm water in 20 minutes. You are not living in a 100% sterile environment, so you are creating the absolute perfect way to grow microbes.

That's nonsense. Bacteria can't multiply unless there are chemicals in the water that can provide an energy source, and a source for the chemicals the bacteria needs to create more bacteria. For instance, bacteria are mostly made of protein, which require nitrogen compounds to create. In distilled water, there is very little available nitrogen. There is also little food the bacteria can use as an energy source.

Tap water that comes from lake or stream water does have some of these "food" chemicals, but bacteria still doesn't grow that fast unless you contaminate the water somehow.

Dust from the air will end up getting into the water as you use it, so crud and germ food will eventually build up in your water tank. You should dump the water occasionally, especially if you're not using distilled water.

Even if there is bacteria in your water tank, in theory, the water evaporates from the surface, which will leave the bacteria behind. You only get the bacteria out into the air if you make droplets or "aerosolize" the water. The humidifiers are designed not to do this.
Get the free SleepyHead software here.
Useful links.
Click here for information on the main alternative to CPAP.
If it's midnight and a DME tells you it's dark outside, go and check it yourself.
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#23
It's a little off-topic, but I've always wondered why Resmed uses metal instead of plastic for the bottom of the humidifier tank.

And another aside: According to Richard Dawkins, there are far more bacteria in your gut right now than the total number of humans who have ever lived on the planet, so get used to them.
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#24
(01-08-2016, 02:58 AM)Jim Bronson Wrote: It's a little off-topic, but I've always wondered why Resmed uses metal instead of plastic for the bottom of the humidifier tank.

And another aside: According to Richard Dawkins, there are far more bacteria in your gut right now than the total number of humans who have ever lived on the planet, so get used to them.

Metal conducts heat better than plastic. It can also be thinner than plastic, which, again, conducts heat better. It also is less likely to warp with heat. The humidifier heats the water with a heating element under the metal plate at the bottom of the humidifier.

The number of bacteria isn't the whole picture. Most of us have worked out sort of a balance with the bacteria in our gut. Get a different strain/species of bacteria in your gut, your mouth, your lungs, and you can be in big trouble.

It's also important to realize that a bacteria that's relatively benign in one part of your body can be a problem if it gets into another part of your body, or if you get a larger than normal number of that bacteria.

Get the free SleepyHead software here.
Useful links.
Click here for information on the main alternative to CPAP.
If it's midnight and a DME tells you it's dark outside, go and check it yourself.
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#25
(01-08-2016, 05:59 AM)archangle Wrote:
(01-08-2016, 02:58 AM)Jim Bronson Wrote: It's a little off-topic, but I've always wondered why Resmed uses metal instead of plastic for the bottom of the humidifier tank.

And another aside: According to Richard Dawkins, there are far more bacteria in your gut right now than the total number of humans who have ever lived on the planet, so get used to them.

Metal conducts heat better than plastic. It can also be thinner than plastic, which, again, conducts heat better. It also is less likely to warp with heat. The humidifier heats the water with a heating element under the metal plate at the bottom of the humidifier.

The number of bacteria isn't the whole picture. Most of us have worked out sort of a balance with the bacteria in our gut. Get a different strain/species of bacteria in your gut, your mouth, your lungs, and you can be in big trouble.

It's also important to realize that a bacteria that's relatively benign in one part of your body can be a problem if it gets into another part of your body, or if you get a larger than normal number of that bacteria.
OK got it about the metal in the bottom of the humidifier. Makes sense. That second comment was my unsuccessful attempt at a bit of tongue in cheek humor. Smile

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#26
It does indeed look like a burn mark. If it is a burn mark and the tank hasn't dried out when in use, that suggests its overheating.

More generally, my advice (for what it's worth) is to throw out excess water each morning, allow the tank to dry, and refill with new distilled water when you go to bed.
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#27
(01-08-2016, 05:59 AM)archangle Wrote:
(01-08-2016, 02:58 AM)Jim Bronson Wrote: It's a little off-topic, but I've always wondered why Resmed uses metal instead of plastic for the bottom of the humidifier tank.

And another aside: According to Richard Dawkins, there are far more bacteria in your gut right now than the total number of humans who have ever lived on the planet, so get used to them.

Metal conducts heat better than plastic. It can also be thinner than plastic, which, again, conducts heat better. It also is less likely to warp with heat. The humidifier heats the water with a heating element under the metal plate at the bottom of the humidifier.

The number of bacteria isn't the whole picture. Most of us have worked out sort of a balance with the bacteria in our gut. Get a different strain/species of bacteria in your gut, your mouth, your lungs, and you can be in big trouble.

It's also important to realize that a bacteria that's relatively benign in one part of your body can be a problem if it gets into another part of your body, or if you get a larger than normal number of that bacteria.

It was interesting to me to note that with other changes from Resmed's S8 line of CPAPs to their S9 line they did some very beneficial redesign of the water tank. The S8 water tank is plastic ion the bottom and has an aluminum plate in the area of the bottom where the heater plate contacts it. If it ran dry for a lengthy period of time you would get some very noxious fumes. You do not need to ask how I know that.

The S9 water tank has the whole bottom half made of aluminum or stainless steel depending on which type of tank you have. Combined with temperature control in the heater unit, this avoids the noxious fume possibility.

One other minor detail. There is good reason why stainless steel is called stain-less and not stainfree.

Best Regards,

PaytonA
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#28
The idea that the tank and water is completely sterile and stays that way over a week as it is handled and touched daily, opened daily, water added daily, and room air blown across for 8 hrs a day it seems a stretch to me, but I am not a micro biologist.
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#29
(01-11-2016, 08:33 AM)player Wrote: The idea that the tank and water is completely sterile and stays that way over a week as it is handled and touched daily, opened daily, water added daily, and room air blown across for 8 hrs a day it seems a stretch to me, but I am not a micro biologist.

Nothing sterile that is exposed to air stays sterile for long. Distilled water doesn't remain sterile when exposed to air, either. BUT it has no organic nutrients and there is nothing for any bugs that land on it (which probably number in the millions) to eat. So they soon die and can't infect you. Leave it long enough and sure it will gain enough organics from debris in the air to sustain some microbial growth. But not within a few hours or days.

You could do an experiment. Put some distilled water in a pan and wait and see how long it takes to get cloudy. My experience says that, for example, filtered tap water which is by no means distilled stays clear and clean for months in a capped bottle.

Ed Seedhouse
VA7SDH

I am neither a Doctor, nor any other kind of medical professional.

Actually you know, it is what it isn't.
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