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Run Dreamstation on 400W inverter?
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Ockrocket Offline

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Post: #1
Run Dreamstation on 400W inverter?
So not being able to be certain of understanding the different power numbers regarding my Dreamstation Auto CPAP unit...

In plain English my question is will my Dreamstation run off a 400W inverter?

I have just purchased a 12v jump starter unit to carry in my 4WD, it is also compact enough that I will be able to carry it in my sidecar for camping trips as well.

The unit also has 2 x USB outlets to charge mobile phones etc., plus 2 x 12v cigarette lighter sockets, a 5 LED work light on the front of it, a compressor for pumping up tyres, and a 240v 400W AC power outlet.

The battery in the unit is a 600 CA 18 Ah sealed lead acid one.

Though a deep cycle battery would be better, I'm thinking I may also be able to run my CPAP for a night or two at a time between recharging the jumper pack off car/bike/solar panels.

Then I guess the next part of the conundrum is whether to run it off the inverter, or to run it direct off the 12v side of the jumper pack using an aftermarket 12v power cord from one of the CPAP accessory suppliers.

Any input from techsperts and CPAP travelers/campers will be most welcome.
Thanks
09-17-2016 11:48 PM
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srlevine1 Offline

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Post: #2
RE: Run Dreamstation on 400W inverter?
I used my old ResMed 8 Elite II CPAP (without humidifier) with a Duracell Heavy Duty Battery Charger Pack and I got approximately 6 hours at a pressure setting of 12 cm (H20). The unit was pricy -- about $150.00 but I got it on sale.

I did not go beyond 6 hours to avoid deep-cycling the battery which did not appear to have deep-cycle capability. I used it for two consecutive nights with a full recharge between. No apparent damage.

I did not consider a solar recharge power source as I believe it would have required a larger array than I wanted to pack and would require more than a few hours in bright direct sunlight.

I did not want to use the 110 outlets or inverter because it simply wastes energy (dissipated as heat), so I used the required 12V DC ResMed Converter directly to the 12 volt battery outlet (cigarette lighter style) on the unit. [Forgot to mention that the waveform -- non-pure sine wave -- may damage your device.]

I can no longer find my older units on the market. They had everything. (110v outlets - 600W), an Anderson Power Pole Connector (12V), Cigarette Lighter Connector (12v), A Work Light, An AM-FM Radio with antenna, digital power meter, and used 28Ahr lead-acid batteries. You could leave the internal charger plugged-in with no damage.

There are modern versions -- without all the bells and whistles -- but with USB Charging ports and one with an air compressor.

One version is made under license by a local firm and their engineers reviewed the ResMed requirements for the AirSense AutoSet, but said they could not suggest that their unit could be used as power for an FDA-approved medical device without FDA approval. Oh Well.

As they say, experiment -- and your mileage will vary. Good luck.

"The object in life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane." -- Marcus Aurelius
(This post was last modified: 09-18-2016 08:05 PM by srlevine1.)
09-18-2016 03:03 AM
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Ockrocket Offline

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Posts: 164
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Machine: Philips Dreamstation.
Mask Type: Nasal mask
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Sex: Male
Location: Windsor (near enough) NSW, Au.

Post: #3
RE: Run Dreamstation on 400W inverter?
Is there an issue for the data side of a CPAP machine due to sine wave differences between inverters/mains current/12v DC?

I'm knowledgeable in basic vehicle and home wiring, but not familiar with the idiosyncrasies of electricity as a specific current flow.
09-18-2016 05:46 PM
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justMongo Offline

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Post: #4
RE: Run Dreamstation on 400W inverter?
There is a guy on YouTube who took apart one of these all-in-one packs.
The unit was supposed to have a battery in the 17 Amp-Hr range.
A comparison of battery weight showed that to be unlikely.

He also took apart the battery. (Not recommended mate -- we've seen you drive your sidecar!)
There was empty space to make the battery look like a 17 A-Hr.

[Image: battery.jpg]




INFORMATION ON APNEA BOARD FORUMS OR ON APNEABOARD.COM SHOULD NOT BE CONSIDERED AS MEDICAL ADVICE. ALWAYS SEEK THE ADVICE OF A PHYSICIAN BEFORE SEEKING TREATMENT FOR MEDICAL CONDITIONS, INCLUDING SLEEP APNEA. INFORMATION POSTED ON THE APNEA BOARD WEB SITE AND FORUMS ARE PERSONAL OPINION ONLY AND NOT NECESSARILY A STATEMENT OF FACT.
09-18-2016 06:10 PM
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Ockrocket Offline

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Posts: 164
Joined: Jul 2016

Machine: Philips Dreamstation.
Mask Type: Nasal mask
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Sex: Male
Location: Windsor (near enough) NSW, Au.

Post: #5
RE: Run Dreamstation on 400W inverter?
(09-18-2016 06:10 PM)justMongo Wrote:  There is a guy on YouTube who took apart one of these all-in-one packs.
The unit was supposed to have a battery in the 17 Amp-Hr range.
A comparison of battery weight showed that to be unlikely.

He also took apart the battery. (Not recommended mate -- we've seen you drive your sidecar!)
There was empty space to make the battery look like a 17 A-Hr.

Well that is an insight... probably wouldn't have bothered buying it if I'd seen the video first.
And even at the rough calculation of exchange rates, this unit is far more expensive to buy in Australia than it is in England it seems.

Going by the weight of my unit, which is actually claimed as a 7 in one rather than the 5 in one in the video [identical other than having two USB outlets on mine as well the same stuff the tested one has], it doesn't have a genuine 18 Ah battery in it either.

I'm guessing running the Dreamstation off the 12v outlet with an appropriate adapter cord will be ok, but probably not stable enough output from the inverter to risk running off 240v..

And you may end up having to take your "sidecar" comment back. Big Grin

I'm slowly making progress on the repair work.

Doing it all with non genuine parts is what is the challenge is, genuine parts are either not available, or overly expensive for second hand crap.

I've also decided to go for a more 'old school' look to match the style of the chair fitted to the bike.

Single round headlight, no fairing, more upright windscreen, mudguard that will sit higher so it doesn't clog with mud [my intention is to use the outfit for bike rallies and adventure touring].
The speedo binnacle has come off a totally different brand and era of bike, but I'm hoping it will read the correct speed due to both bikes having the same front wheel diameter... wiring the electrics for the gauges and idiot lights and temp/oil sender units will be the tricky part.

[Image: 20160912_183901_zps1e4yvcba.jpg]
[Image: 20160912_134835_zpsjqkuuquw.jpg]
[Image: 20160912_183954_zpsnjazdnyx.jpg]
[Image: 20160902_171534_zpsrm0gmlpr.jpg]
09-18-2016 11:12 PM
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Sleeprider Online
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Post: #6
RE: Run Dreamstation on 400W inverter?
I'd also check that steering bearing for lube and torque. Bike project looks pretty good, so it's hard to believe you're having problems putting a 12 volt CPAP on 12 volt battery power.

With regard to your original question on using an inverter, you realize that is extraordinarily inefficient to go from DC to AC then DC. All you need to use a 12 volt source is a DC adapter. Your Respironics unit will run without any converter, inverter or adapter on a 12 volt source. Even if you buy a Respironics DC adapter, your cost will be under $30 USD and you can source it from any CPAP supplier, or even Ebay. At that point, you can use any 12-volt deep cycle battery. The ones that are mid-sized AGM for operating mobility scooters are ideal since they are smaller, and more compact and have plenty of power to operate the device one or more nights.

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09-19-2016 08:55 AM
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Ockrocket Offline

Advisory Members

Posts: 164
Joined: Jul 2016

Machine: Philips Dreamstation.
Mask Type: Nasal mask
Mask Make & Model: F&P Eson.
Humidifier: Philips Dreamstation.
CPAP Pressure: 7.0
CPAP Software: SleepyHead

Other Comments:

Sex: Male
Location: Windsor (near enough) NSW, Au.

Post: #7
RE: Run Dreamstation on 400W inverter?
(09-19-2016 08:55 AM)Sleeprider Wrote:  I'd also check that steering bearing for lube and torque. Bike project looks pretty good, so it's hard to believe you're having problems putting a 12 volt CPAP on 12 volt battery power.

With regard to your original question on using an inverter, you realize that is extraordinarily inefficient to go from DC to AC then DC. All you need to use a 12 volt source is a DC adapter. Your Respironics unit will run without any converter, inverter or adapter on a 12 volt source. Even if you buy a Respironics DC adapter, your cost will be under $30 USD and you can source it from any CPAP supplier, or even Ebay. At that point, you can use any 12-volt deep cycle battery. The ones that are mid-sized AGM for operating mobility scooters are ideal since they are smaller, and more compact and have plenty of power to operate the device one or more nights.

Steering head and leading link suspension/forks all good, I'm surprised I didn't bend them considering I hit the fallen tree at 60 kp/h. [see my other post elsewhere in the forum for more details and photos. http://www.apneaboard.com/forums/Thread-Crashed-my-sidecar ]

I know inverters are less efficient for running things that can be run direct from a 12v battery, I have another inverter I use for other small 240v items that won't run direct off a battery.
I just thought I might try it out for a night at home on the inverter outlet while I wait for a 12v cord to arrive, but I don't really want to risk destroying a new Dreamstation I've just paid $2,300 for because the inverter might have a sine wave that is detrimental to it.

I spotted the jump starter/power pack the other day when I was looking for other parts I needed from an auto accessory shop, the pack looked like a good option because of the extra features it has - compressor/jump start/work light/2 x 12v sockets/2 x USB sockets/240v 400W inverter power outlet - all very handy as a single unit for camping with both the 4WD and the sidecar, a little big to take on my two wheeled motorcycle camping trips though.

It is somewhat disappointing to find that the claimed 18 A/h battery is actually only a 12 A/h one.... duped yet again by foreign manufacturers who have no integrity when it comes to truth of advertising.

And a 12v power cord for the Dreamstation here in Australia is $49.95 AU + delivery.
I prefer to buy off local suppliers, and don't trust FleaBay to get products to me.

The last items I ordered where guaranteed delivery to anywhere Australia in 14 days or less, they were to be a gift that my wife was to take overseas with her for her father's birthday.
They were ordered and paid for 5 weeks prior to her flight out, the goods arrived two weeks after she had flown out.
And the eBay vendor claimed the items were in Australia to start with, but they ended up arriving in a package from England, and marked Made in China.

I like your idea of the mobility scooter battery option, I will chat with my battery man that I buy all my bike/4WD batteries from... he has a big range, and supplied the batteries I bought for a powered wheel chair I got for a mate who has MS, so he will have the type you are referring to as well.

I'm still going to build myself a powerpack compact enough to carry on my adventure bike for camping trips.
I will investigate the scooter batteries for that- it will be exclusively for the CPAP, so only needs a socket for power out, but I will also make a male to male lead to plug in to the socket so I can recharge it off the 12v outlet on my bike while I'm riding.
09-19-2016 06:53 PM
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justMongo Offline

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Post: #8
RE: Run Dreamstation on 400W inverter?
This is my favorite solution. You don't need the ResMed 12V to 24V converter. Just 12 to 12 cable for the PR machine.
http://www.apneaboard.com/forums/Thread-...#pid162941

INFORMATION ON APNEA BOARD FORUMS OR ON APNEABOARD.COM SHOULD NOT BE CONSIDERED AS MEDICAL ADVICE. ALWAYS SEEK THE ADVICE OF A PHYSICIAN BEFORE SEEKING TREATMENT FOR MEDICAL CONDITIONS, INCLUDING SLEEP APNEA. INFORMATION POSTED ON THE APNEA BOARD WEB SITE AND FORUMS ARE PERSONAL OPINION ONLY AND NOT NECESSARILY A STATEMENT OF FACT.
09-19-2016 07:10 PM
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H U L K Offline

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Post: #9
RE: Run Dreamstation on 400W inverter?
hello,

As these machines use an electronic motor, i would only use a sine-wave inverter. I have a Thunder Weekender with a 100ah deep cycle marine battery in it and the Weekender also has a 300w pure sine wave inverter built in. haven't' used it until it went flat yet but going off some rough calculations, it should last at least a week with it set on 10.

Not using a pure sine-wave inverter could damage the motor and circuitry. Not worth the risk on a $1000+ machine.
10-03-2016 04:46 AM
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Ghost1958 Offline

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Post: #10
RE: Run Dreamstation on 400W inverter?
After calling the tech in Murray PA where they build the PR machine ,and being assured that a pr machine up to a 560 does NOT require pure sine wave, Ive ran mine and the wifes off a plain non inverted 110 champion generator.
With no damage or issues

Prs will also run direct off of 12v DC
10-04-2016 12:29 AM
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