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Scared to death!
#31
I'm glad you came here to vent. Everyone needs that outlet.
As you've noticed, most here are very supportive and want to help.

There is no easy answer for your situation.

You are entitled to tell him it's not fair to you or him, for him to ignore this issue. That you expect and deserve better than that.

You don't have to say "or else".

But if asked "what's that supposed to mean" you also don't have to give any additional clarification and can leave it up in the air...

I didn't want to deal with a whole sleep study or have to "wear a mask" every night. I started by just putting a recording oximeter on my finger overnight. I saw what was happening with my o2 level then. It was pretty obvious I needed to do something, when I had the graph in front of me. Possibly you can get that small first step as a concession, "just wear this on your finger overnight and look at the results tomorrow".
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#32
venting is healthy and having a place to do it is important.

My husband has done similar self-destructive things with his health, and my opinion is that it was depression that led him to it. He was born with large holes in his heart (ASD) and had experimental surgery on them at age 5 which saved his life. He also had a major car accident that put him in a round bed for 3 months when he was 17. He has had several other major medical issues as well. He has come to positively hate hospitals and his worst insult for food is that it tastes like hospital food. He decided he did not like my dentist, and never went back to have his last crown permanently cemented, lost it, and continued that way for the last 10 years no matter what I said now he has an abscess. Recently he has begun to take better care of himself... Our oldest child has had some really gut-wrenching life issues and after watching us lose it, our other 2 children interventioned us and in the end my husband went for counseling. He needed to vent too, and there just wasnt anywhere he could do it safely. Now he has a dentist appt, a sleep study appt, and a series of heart doctor appts (has an aortic aneurysm and chronic afib) he has lost weight because he is eating healthier. All a result of talking it out. Everyone needs a good and safe place to vent! It is easier for the extroverts and really difficult for introverts like my husband. Please vent away Smile
هههههه هههههه هههههه هههههه هههههه هههههه هههههه هههههه هههههه هههههه هههههه هههههه هههههه هههههه
Tongue Suck Technique for prevention of mouth breathing:
  • Place your tongue behind your front teeth on the roof of your mouth
  • let your tongue fill the space between the upper molars
  • gently suck to form a light vacuum
Practising during the day can help you to keep it at night

هههههه هههههه هههههه هههههه هههههه هههههه هههههه هههههه هههههه هههههه هههههه هههههه هههههه هههههه
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#33
I'm a bit stuck on the part where the Dr will not take in information from the spouse. Say what? Maybe the laws are different in my country. I thought there was an ethical requirement to care for the patient, and that can include 3rd party info from the spouse or family member. How else can a Dr be confident of having an accurate picture of the soundness of the patient? 6 minute discussion periods won't show concerns about on-coming dementia, competence or other problems. I thought family members are ethically required to report concerns to the Dr.

If a Dr suspects a patient is losing capability to drive safely, where I live, the patient is sent for a reassessment. There is a duty to report, for the safety of the patient and the public. So I see this as the spouse actually has a duty to report her concerns to the doctor. She is a health practitioner, and has ethical obligations to her profession. If the Dr refuses to listen to her then that is his problem (and his license at stake).

Yeah, I'm going on about ethical requirements. But this has me annoyed. Maybe time to find another Dr. Or ask the medical standards board about clarifying spousal discussion. I get that a Dr cannot discuss the patient, but they can be on "receive" and take info in. Especially where falling asleep at the wheel has happened and is likely to recur. At least if a person tries to communicate the concern and makes a serious effort, then one can feel less guilt when the foreseeable consequence occurs.

When talking about ethics with an older padre many years ago, he explained there is the "sin of commission" as well as the "sin of omission". The 10 commandments (thou shalt nots...") are mostly about commission. We often struggle with the omission ones: "the what should/ought I do".
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#34
Thank you! You have clarified for me something that is bothering me about her post but I couldn't seem to articulate.

Yes I wonder how she will feel if she gets that call where her husband killed people because he fell asleep operating what became a 4000lb bullet? Is this Negligent homicide?


Would love to dive into doublespeak but this isn't the forum for that discussion.......

I use my PAP machine nightly and I feel great!
Updated: Philips Respironics System One (60 Series)
RemStar BiPAP Auto with Bi-FlexModel 760P -
Rise Time x3 Fixed Bi-Level EPAP 9.0 IPAP 11.5 (cmH2O)
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#35
I think the "nuclear option" in a case like this would be reporting her concerns to the husband's car insurance company and the DMV. They would pull a license/insurance fast enough to make your head can spin where I live, until medical competence can be assured.

As an aside I wonder if it apnea or actually narcolepsy the husband suffers from. Either way, the medical doctor should be the one to run a work up on it. That's why they get paid. If not, find a different/competent physician.

I'm mentioning the fitness for driving aspect from some experience. My husband had a one-off seizure 12 years ago at home. No one knew what caused it, maybe a bad reaction to meds. He had to get cleared again to drive after that. I know from reading on here that in California professional truckers have a hard time if they have been diagnosed. I'm sorry for the position the OP is in, and I really feel bad for her position. She is in a lose-lose situation. Maybe if there were someone else in a position of trust (clergy?) she could talk to in order to bring about some change.




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#36
Eat-popcorn

Unless his doctor has a restraining order against you and you can't approach within X yards of his practice I say pick up the phone and make the call. Otherwise, assuming you live in the USA, I challenge anyone to show me a law that says you can't call his doctor.


Using FlashAir W-03 SD card in machine. Access through wifi with FlashPAP or Sleep Master utilities.

I wanted to learn Binary so I enrolled in Binary 101. I seemed to have missed the first four courses. Big Grinnie

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#37
Had a very long day today. I've been busy. My husband's insurance company will not act without something from a Dr stating he has apnea. My word is not good enough. I am not his health care provider. I found out that he was asked about the apnea and denied having any sleep issues. His dr, thru his nurse, said his hands are tied. The police can't do anything because he has not caused any accidents and I have no medical proof that he has apnea. I can't change Dr's, it's my husband's choice not mine. He refused the pulse ox, says he doesn't need his O2 levels checked while he sleeps because he sleeps fine. I guess I could try to sneak it on him? I will address one thing... If I get the call that he has killed himself or others I will feel pain and sorrow the likes of which I cannot begin to articulate. But I won't feel guilt. My husband is a grown man. He makes the choice to ignore this problem on a daily basis.
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#38
video record him. then suggest watching a video. he may get mad but he will see enough of what goes on when he sleeps (find a bad spot in his sleep on the video) because once he sees that, he may walk out of the room. BUT, you will have gotten evidence to him that will hopefully sink in.
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#39
pgolson,

You are a jewel. You have done everything that can be done by one person for another. Bottom line he is a grown up and he gets to make his own decisions about his health issues. Don't feel like you are alone in this. A lot of people have spouses with serious conditions who refuse to take care of themselves. I know something about this, although I don't face the scariness of a spouse gasping for breath in their sleep as you do.

I hesitate to post this but I am going to offer a different perspective than most of the advice up to now, even my own earlier post. In doing this I am going to ignore the potential impact on other people outside your family because that is on your husband and you can't do anything about it. You nailed it when you said you would feel a lot of horrible things but guilt is not one of them. Good for you.

So instead let's talk about being scared to death all the time. You can't live your life in continuous distress. It will make you sick. And you are doing so much to help yourself be well in other ways. Here are some thoughts that might be helpful.

One thing I have noticed about elderly couples whom I have loved and admired: as they reach their 70s, 80s, 90s, they become aware that they might wake up one day and find their spouse is gone. They talk about it but they don't worry about it. They know that the mortality rate for humans in the 21st century is 100%. Some of them will deal with severe disabilities before the end comes. But they focus on living and not dying, and they live in gratitude for the time they have together before one of them leaves. They inspire me. I want to be more like them.

We on this forum are perhaps thinking about mortality at a younger age due to life circumstances, but to focus on death instead of life will rob us of the moments we do have left. At this point your husband is not going to do anything about his SA. You can bicker with him and both be miserable about it but it won't change anything. And if he passes away because of it you will have lots of painful memories of your final years together.

Consider making good memories instead. If he feels rotten enough before something really bad happens then he will decide it's time to deal with it. Look for that every day but don't nag him about it. In the meantime you can rest knowing you have done all you know how to do, and resolve to focus on life versus focus on death.

Is that sticking your head in the sand? I don't think so. You have faced your worst fears with courage and you have taken all the proactive action you can take. You have not ignored the problem. You have sought help and will continue to seek solutions.

Now in the knowledge that you are doing and have done all you can, maybe you can give yourself permission to not worry. Live a happy life with gratitude for all the time you have left. It might be a long time or it might be a little time. The time might be cut short by something that has nothing to do with SA. We don't get to know, right?

Live your life expecting and believing that someday he will have had enough and decide to seek help. In the meantime make good memories. You deserve it. Be kind to yourself. Be kind to him. If you are a person of faith then pray for him and trust God with your lives.

With all the other talk about drastic steps that would subvert his dignity and destroy your relationship albeit with best intentions, I wanted to offer a counterpoint for your consideration.

Saldus Miegas
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#40
SaldusMiegas when I first entered this thread I was most sympathetic. I know what it is like to deal with a person who won't acknowledge or deal with an infirmity. However for her to say one day if her husband kills my loved one(s) and she will feel no guilt or will not take the one action that might possibly stop this murder????? I have had a loved one murdered by a drunk driver. How is this any different?

If the one tool she has that might possibly stop this is to throw him out or leave him as the case may be and she does not use it? If someone else suffers catastrophe because she failed to use every possible tool at her disposal? Her duty to her marriage vows outrank her duty to prevent an innocent's death?

She is a nurse. Get thee to a mental health advisor, religious adviser, and a lawyer. If you continue enabling his behavior you are a part of it!

Physician heal thyself!

I use my PAP machine nightly and I feel great!
Updated: Philips Respironics System One (60 Series)
RemStar BiPAP Auto with Bi-FlexModel 760P -
Rise Time x3 Fixed Bi-Level EPAP 9.0 IPAP 11.5 (cmH2O)
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