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Sleep med for titration?
#1
Good morning!

I am set to have a second CPAP titration soon.

In both my initial sleep study and the first titration I did not use sleep meds, and had results that are not usual sleeping patterns for me, I guess I just do not enjoy being hooked up...lol I understand this is not unusual...

My question is: If I take a sleep med to assist my sleep, will it be more accurate, or just different from no sleep meds.

I am trying to get a fix on restorative sleep, which continues to elude me, and has for many years. The CPAP has helped in many ways, but I am not getting deep sleep yet.

Anyway, I have various theories, and would like other's ideas around this..

Thanks in advance...

Storywizard

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#2
Different, most definitely not more accurate - how you sleep on the meds will be shown, but do you use meds normally or not? And will you still need meds once you have adjusted to CPAP? Sleep meds will not aid in restorative sleep - most will do the opposite, in fact. However, since you have had interrupted sleep for many years, it takes time for the brain to figure that out and adjust, and once on CPAP, after a few months, your brain, seeing that you are no longer forced out of a sleep phase by violent choking every few minutes, will start to allow you to drift into deeper sleep phases again naturally - but sleep meds may actually hinder that process. It takes time, sometimes a lot of time, because your brain has to unlearn certain behaviours.

Like most Swiss physicians, I don't like sleep medication and prefer to recommend natural methods to help you get to sleep, ranging from hot milk or a toddy before bed to meditation, valerian tincture or deep breathing rituals (or sex - for men it releases a hormone that puts you out like a light - even a visit to Mrs. Hand and her Five Lovely Daughters will do it - for women, sex does the opposite - it seems to wake them up, not put them out, since a hormone to get them to sleep is not released, and sex is invigorating for most women (please don't flood me with your opposite experiences, this is what we find in the majority of cases - each individual is different, of course), so better in the morning that before sleep if you have sleeping troubles).
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#3
(07-16-2015, 12:05 PM)DocWils Wrote: Different, most definitely not more accurate - how you sleep on the meds will be shown, but do you use meds normally or not? And will you still need meds once you have adjusted to CPAP? Sleep meds will not aid in restorative sleep - most will do the opposite, in fact. However, since you have had interrupted sleep for many years, it takes time for the brain to figure that out and adjust, and once on CPAP, after a few months, your brain, seeing that you are no longer forced out of a sleep phase by violent choking every few minutes, will start to allow you to drift into deeper sleep phases again naturally - but sleep meds may actually hinder that process. It takes time, sometimes a lot of time, because your brain has to unlearn certain behaviours.

Like most Swiss physicians, I don't like sleep medication and prefer to recommend natural methods to help you get to sleep, ranging from hot milk or a toddy before bed to meditation, valerian tincture or deep breathing rituals (or sex - for men it releases a hormone that puts you out like a light - even a visit to Mrs. Hand and her Five Lovely Daughters will do it - for women, sex does the opposite - it seems to wake them up, not put them out, since a hormone to get them to sleep is not released, and sex is invigorating for most women (please don't flood me with your opposite experiences, this is what we find in the majority of cases - each individual is different, of course), so better in the morning that before sleep if you have sleeping troubles).

I am laughing so hard I have tears rolling down my cheeks...thanks for that Doc...:-)

I have been using sleep meds very lightly, no more than two nights in a row and then not more than that in a single week.

I get the natural way...I meditate at least twice a day, and also before bed. No computer/screen use after 7ish...no reading after 8:30...don't like Valerian, depresses me...

I will work on the exercises in Barry Krakow's book, I found them very potent, he like your self is not a believer in sleep meds...

As for sex, have not been there for years, not sure if I want to wake that particular part of me up at this point...caregiving can end all of that...anyway...

Thanks again, I will reflect on what you have suggested, I feel like I am heading in the right direction...I guess patience is called for after years of apneas....

all the best,

sincerely,

Storywizard

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#4
(07-16-2015, 11:03 AM)storywizard Wrote: Good morning!

I am set to have a second CPAP titration soon.

My question is: If I take a sleep med to assist my sleep, will it be more accurate, or just different from no sleep meds.


Storywizard


Had a good laugh at the responses above. Just want to assure DocWils that I promise not to add my thoughts about sex/sleep issues... being a female and all. lol

Storywizard... after reading here and on other forums about taking a sleep aid for a sleep study/titration, I've found that many do it "naturally" and some take a sleep aid. In a discussion with my doctor before my sleep study, she said to try to sleep naturally and after 45 minutes of still being awake, to take a sleep aid. I couldn't fall asleep after an hour so took the sleep aid. According to her, she got the results she needed and the rest is history. Far better to fall asleep than stay awake the entire night with zero data. Best wishes for happy dreams during the study.


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#5
I don't do sleep aids, but can I suggest getting yourself accustomed to a bunch of stuff on you and then going to bed? You've had prior sleep studies, so you do have a general idea about the hookup. Then, at least the wires and stuff won't be interfering with your sleep so much because you're used to them.

That's said, some sleep is better than no sleep and wasting a test. So I would go in with the plan for an alternative. I end up taking Benadryl for three or four days every spring because of my reactions to mosquito bites at the beginning of the season. I sleep really good for the first day or two , but pretty much no effect after that. However Benadryl just makes some people hyper and may not even be a good choice for you. Best bet though is to ask the sleep center what the recommendations are. Oh and take your personal pillow.
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#6
While Baldrian (known to you as Valerian) may be a depressive sometimes, for a one off, like getting to sleep for a titration it won't have a strong effect that way, and maybe for the sake of getting a clean result it is the lesser of the two evils in terms of the titration, since the use of Baldrian does not influence sleep levels or sleep respiration, unlike many sleep meds. For home use, the best is developing bed time rituals that your mind gets conditioned to prepare you for sleep (operant or Pavlovian conditioning) and that will be your best bet. I have become so used to having the mask on now that if I lie on the couch trying to relax enough to sleep it won't work, but the moment I get into bed and slip on the mask, the process of nodding off begins. My mind has become conditioned to associate the mask with sleepiness and sleep. I actually yawned a few weeks back when visiting the LL to get my equipment checked and a new tank and mask, the moment they brought out the new mask. Pure Pavlov. I wonder, should I ever get cured of Sleep Apnoea, if I will be able to get to sleep without the mask? Even writing this, I want to yawn.

As for the sex bit, I certainly understand. One sometimes had best let the beast sleep on. At least you are working on your Buddhahood that way....
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#7
Thanks for the replies...

I will look into Valerian...as a one time thing...

I have no major problems with the masks now, I am doing some work with imagery while I wear it,
so that is getting better...

Thanks again...

Storywizard
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#8
It occurred to me back when I had my sleep study, and could not sleep that the magic tranquilizer of Rosie Palm and her five sisters might do the trick, however I thought better of it considering all the wires, sensors, probes and observation that was present. I suppose the techs have seen everything, but I'm a bit inhibited for that one at a sleep study.

I do want to share DocWils insights with my wife just so she knows there are some benefits. Doctor recommended, patient approved! Too-funny
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#9
(07-16-2015, 03:02 PM)Sleeprider Wrote: It occurred to me back when I had my sleep study, and could not sleep that the magic tranquilizer of Rosie Palm and her five sisters might do the trick, however I thought better of it considering all the wires, sensors, probes and observation that was present. I suppose the techs have seen everything, but I'm a bit inhibited for that one at a sleep study.

I do want to share DocWils insights with my wife just so she knows there are some benefits. Doctor recommended, patient approved! Too-funny

OK, OK, too much laughing going on here...ThanksThanks

Storywizard
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#10
Sleeprider,

I can tell certainly from an ekg or an eeg what level of "arousal" you are at, heck, if you wore your CPAP while doing it, I could make a pretty good guess of the chart there as well. And, yes, the techs have seen it all, twice over.

BTW, I recall as a student a few enterprising types trying it on while hooked up to a holter and eeg just to see what sort of readings they would get, and to see if they could fool the devices... I'm pretty sure every generation of students everywhere tried it. There was this bloke HansJurg and a bird called Olga in my class, as I recall.... And I just realised using the term bird seriously dates me - sorry, ladies.
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