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Sleep stages - can it be monitored by me?
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Mosquitobait Offline

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Machine: Resmed AirSense 10 For Her
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Other Comments: RLS and Bradycardia

Sex: Female
Location: Minneapolis

Post: #11
RE: Sleep stages - can it be monitored by me?
No unless you had clear demarcations in your sleep study. In both my sleep study and titration, I only have apnea and RERA events during near REM and REM sleep. So, it's easy for me to see on the Sleepyhead data whether I've ever entered REM sleep or not. That was a big reason for having the apap in the first place - I have a pressure of 9 most of the night. Only when I'm nearly in REM and REM sleep does it go up. Days where I've had a lot of REM sleep, I feel pretty good with no need for naps. Days where I've had little or broken REM sleep, I need 1-2 naps.

For most people, this isn't going to work. Look at your sleep study and titration and see if there are any clear patterns.
(This post was last modified: 02-19-2016 12:29 PM by Mosquitobait.)
02-19-2016 12:28 PM
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NovaSleep Offline

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Post: #12
RE: Sleep stages - can it be monitored by me?
(02-18-2016 04:04 PM)MouthBreatha Wrote:  I have an AirSense 10 Autoset and I use the Sleepyhead software. Could anyone tell me if there is a way to tell when I go from one sleep stage to another by that software? Or maybe perhaps some other software?

We have the same unit and software. I have ordered a Pulse Oximeter that should be here next week, and posted yesterday about a new brain wave trcking unit called 'Dreem' made by a company called 'Rythm'.

If you search 'Dreem' it will come right up. They plan to be shipping this Summer, and I have signed up for their beta service as I think this would be pretty cool if it works...
03-31-2016 12:37 PM
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FrankNichols Offline

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Other Comments: I've figured out how to get my AHI down to 5, I quit sleeping!

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Post: #13
RE: Sleep stages - can it be monitored by me?
I just got a ResMed S+ (Amazon for $80, Bed Bath and Beyond, cheaper) which is a non-contact monitor that attempts to record our sleep stages. I say attempts because I am still deciding how accurate it is. My gut feeling at this point is that the over estimates the amount of REM sleep you get. I do feel it is fairly accurate besides that. I am waiting for my CPAP machine (soon please!) and I want to try to correlate what the S+ says with my CPAP machines readings.

It is not that expensive compared to the possible alternatives, and it is interesting. If you can afford it, it might be worth trying. I intend to try to provide a program to scape the [commercial link removed, instead, do a google search for "My S Plus"] web site of my data so I can more easily compare it to SH data - maybe even twist someones arm to add an importer for SH.



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I am not a Medical professional and I don't play one on the internet.
Started CPAP Therapy April 5, 2016
I'd Rather Be Sleeping
03-31-2016 01:04 PM
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robertbuckley Offline

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Post: #14
RE: Sleep stages - can it be monitored by me?
I had a Zeo, and as posted earlier in the thread, they went out of business. It used sensors on the forehead to measure electrical activity. It is a shame that it was reliant on their own computer to analyze the data, rather than using software on a PC. (It transmitted the data to your smartphone, which then sent it to the cloud).
I also have an S+ which uses mainly (from what I can tell) information from your breathing and movement patterns using a radio wave transmitter that then receives the bounce back from your body and Bluetooth's it to your phone. It also has a cloud site with more detail analysis, and is made by Resmed, so I don't think it is going anywhere. Whatever algorithm they are using then translates the data and tells you if you have been in light, deep, REM or awake states. It does a pretty good job, given the limitations of the input that it has, but it does not measure the actual electrical activity of the brain. It is a tool, combined with your PAP reports (be it Sleepyhead, Encore, etc.), and a recording oxy, plus any subjective/objective logs you might keep yourself, that taken together might give you more insight into what is going on inside our noggins besides just the apnea.
I have complex issues, not just from obstructive apnea, and wish there was a device that could measure brain waves and sleep states so as to be treated more objectively (as regards meds). Well, there are - but I mean affordable home devices. I am fortunate in that I have a great doctor who spends the time and tries to help me to integrate all the different data points that I can provide.
Maybe there is a business here that we should start. Anybody know what happened to the Zeo "intellectual property".
03-31-2016 01:33 PM
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FrankNichols Offline

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Post: #15
RE: Sleep stages - can it be monitored by me?
Well, the biggest two problems I see with any "consumer" brainwave analyzing machine is safety (not a good thing to have electricity running though your brain) and cost.

With the advent of SoC's and board at low prices (Raspberry PI 3, etc) the processing power is available, but that is not where the real cost comes in. First in safety you have to run off battery or have a lot of money in isolation - you really don't want to plug the device into the AC outlet - seriously. The second area of cost is in the leads and connections to your head. That is not as simple as it seems. And the correct location is important also - at least so far (maybe more processing power and AI can help reduce the precision required) The sticky electrodes are only available from medical supplies and are a fairly high recurring expense. A "helmet" with builtin sensors that you wear would be easier and more repeatable, may it could be combined with a CPAP mask?

I have made several devices (DIY) for various projects from meditation using brainwave monitoring feedback to tDCS brain stimulation devices. The safety and sensors/electrodes are always the issue and the most costly part. A DIY system would probably run about $100 to $150 up front and then some recurring costs. With normal "harvard business school mark up" that would translate to around $450 sell price.

I am not a Medical professional and I don't play one on the internet.
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03-31-2016 03:49 PM
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palerider Offline

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Post: #16
RE: Sleep stages - can it be monitored by me?
(03-31-2016 03:49 PM)FrankNichols Wrote:  Well, the biggest two problems I see with any "consumer" brainwave analyzing machine is safety (not a good thing to have electricity running though your brain)

it's a VERY good thing to have electricity running through your brain, the alternative is *death*.

EEGs sense that electricity. just like heart monitors sense the electricity your heart generates.
03-31-2016 05:19 PM
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palerider Offline

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Post: #17
RE: Sleep stages - can it be monitored by me?
(02-18-2016 04:04 PM)MouthBreatha Wrote:  I have an AirSense 10 Autoset and I use the Sleepyhead software. Could anyone tell me if there is a way to tell when I go from one sleep stage to another by that software? Or maybe perhaps some other software?

buy a *bedside* zeo. you can import the data into sleepyhead.

then you get something like:
[Image: krrNrGLl.png?1]
03-31-2016 05:35 PM
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FrankNichols Offline

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Machine: AirSense 10 Autoset
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CPAP Software: ResScan SleepyHead Other Software

Other Comments: I've figured out how to get my AHI down to 5, I quit sleeping!

Sex: Male
Location: Live Oak, Florida

Post: #18
RE: Sleep stages - can it be monitored by me?
(03-31-2016 05:19 PM)palerider Wrote:  
(03-31-2016 03:49 PM)FrankNichols Wrote:  Well, the biggest two problems I see with any "consumer" brainwave analyzing machine is safety (not a good thing to have electricity running though your brain)

it's a VERY good thing to have electricity running through your brain, the alternative is *death*.

EEGs sense that electricity. just like heart monitors sense the electricity your heart generates.

I assume you were joking, since it is obvious I was referring to line voltage.

Direct brain stimulation is in the order of a few milliamps DC vs 20 AMPs of 120VAC.

If you read the warnings on old Boom boxes they warned to NOT wear a headset while the boombox is plugged into the AC outlet.

My understanding was that ZEO was out of business? If not I would be interested in it.

I am not a Medical professional and I don't play one on the internet.
Started CPAP Therapy April 5, 2016
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(This post was last modified: 03-31-2016 05:47 PM by FrankNichols.)
03-31-2016 05:46 PM
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palerider Offline

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Post: #19
RE: Sleep stages - can it be monitored by me?
(03-31-2016 05:46 PM)FrankNichols Wrote:  
(03-31-2016 05:19 PM)palerider Wrote:  
(03-31-2016 03:49 PM)FrankNichols Wrote:  Well, the biggest two problems I see with any "consumer" brainwave analyzing machine is safety (not a good thing to have electricity running though your brain)

it's a VERY good thing to have electricity running through your brain, the alternative is *death*.

EEGs sense that electricity. just like heart monitors sense the electricity your heart generates.

I assume you were joking, since it is obvious I was referring to line voltage.

Direct brain stimulation is in the order of a few milliamps DC vs 20 AMPs of 120VAC.

If you read the warnings on old Boom boxes they warned to NOT wear a headset while the boombox is plugged into the AC outlet.

My understanding was that ZEO was out of business? If not I would be interested in it.
I assumed YOU were joking, because the absence of electrical activity in the brain is brain death.

don't think anybody would recommend hooking mains voltage across one's temples. it's not at all difficult to SENSE electricity without injecting any electricity.

there are home EEG units that are available on the hobby market, in the low hundreds.

as to the zeo, see above.
03-31-2016 07:40 PM
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FrankNichols Offline

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Machine: AirSense 10 Autoset
Mask Type: Full face mask
Mask Make & Model: Resmed F10 and/or P10
Humidifier: Builtin
CPAP Pressure: 17-19
CPAP Software: ResScan SleepyHead Other Software

Other Comments: I've figured out how to get my AHI down to 5, I quit sleeping!

Sex: Male
Location: Live Oak, Florida

Post: #20
RE: Sleep stages - can it be monitored by me?
(03-31-2016 07:40 PM)palerider Wrote:  
(03-31-2016 05:46 PM)FrankNichols Wrote:  
(03-31-2016 05:19 PM)palerider Wrote:  it's a VERY good thing to have electricity running through your brain, the alternative is *death*.

EEGs sense that electricity. just like heart monitors sense the electricity your heart generates.

I assume you were joking, since it is obvious I was referring to line voltage.

Direct brain stimulation is in the order of a few milliamps DC vs 20 AMPs of 120VAC.

If you read the warnings on old Boom boxes they warned to NOT wear a headset while the boombox is plugged into the AC outlet.

My understanding was that ZEO was out of business? If not I would be interested in it.
I assumed YOU were joking, because the absence of electrical activity in the brain is brain death.

don't think anybody would recommend hooking mains voltage across one's temples. it's not at all difficult to SENSE electricity without injecting any electricity.

there are home EEG units that are available on the hobby market, in the low hundreds.

as to the zeo, see above.

I understand that it is not necessary to apply voltage to sense the electrical activity in the brain. I have built several DIY units for both reading and stimulating brain activity.

And of course no one would run line voltage through your head intentionally, but sh*t happens and shorts occur and people die. Connecting anything to your head with an electrical wire that leads to a device that is plugged into the wall outlet is asking to be killed. It takes significant effort to prevent accidental shorts that can make it out to the seƱsor/electrodes.

I am not a Medical professional and I don't play one on the internet.
Started CPAP Therapy April 5, 2016
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03-31-2016 09:20 PM
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