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Sleep what is it
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vsheline Offline

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Post: #11
RE: Sleep what is it
(03-13-2013 05:19 PM)Sleepster Wrote:  Any action taken by an Apnea Board moderator or admin will be identified as such. I'm not sure how that word got changed to a string of asterisks. Probably something done automatically by some software somewhere.

Hi Mary,

I have very much appreciated your many knowledgeable and helpful posts on this forum. Thank you for your efforts to help others.

By the way, from what I have seen, it does seem to be the invariable practice that actions by moderators are identified as such.

Take care and please keep in touch,
--- Vaughn

Membership in the Advisory Member group should not be understood as in any way implying medical expertise or qualification for advising Sleep Apnea patients concerning their treatment. The Advisory Member group provides advice and suggestions to Apnea Board administrators and staff on matters concerning Apnea Board operation and administrative policies - not on matters concerning treatment for Sleep Apnea. I think it is now too late to change the name of the group but I think Voting Member group would perhaps have been a more descriptive name for the group.
03-13-2013 05:49 PM
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DocWils Offline

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Post: #12
RE: Sleep what is it
(03-13-2013 08:41 AM)zimlich Wrote:  I don't agree about the trach. If you have obstructive sleep apnea trach removes the obstruction and therefore is a cure. I know of only one person who has a trach, a doctor who used to post on ***. If you have central apnea- no a trach won't cure that, but for garden variety a trach is a sure cure.

Sorry, I define things as an M.D., and a tracheotomy is not considered a cure for apnoea in the med books. It does not remove the obstruction at all, it bores a hole in the throat lower down from the obstruction (one hopes), as such it is considered a therapeutic measure, not a curative measure. Changing the nature of the tissue causing the obstruction, either by excising or binding would be considered curative, if it worked.

It remains a measure of last resort and has a spotty success history with considerable risk of complications.

Back in my residency, I actually encountered an old mountain man who smoked though is tracheotomy hole, although I am not sure if he did it for a joke or in earnest. It didn't matter, he was dead soon after. The tracheotomy was made due to cancer eating at him, much of it caused by his smoking (which is still very prevalent here in Switzerland, despite recent laws curtailing smoking in public buildings. Probably because, unlike Canada, there has been no accompanying spate of public service announcements targeting smokers and showing them up in a bad light).

Even without the cancer and trick smoking, he was already showing signs of infections around the hole, and there was Barrett's deterioration around the trachea below the hole due to the dry air taken in through the hole lacerating the soft tissue nearby. Not a pretty sight and a warning as to what happens long term tracheotomy patients. So, no, I don't think it is a good solution except when no other therapy can present itself.

Lose weight, tone the throat muscles, etc. That is the best ticket all around, and the only that has a high success rate, compared to surgical intervention.
03-13-2013 07:18 PM
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JJJ Offline

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Post: #13
RE: Sleep what is it
(03-13-2013 07:18 PM)wilorg Wrote:  Lose weight, tone the throat muscles, etc. That is the best ticket all around, and the only that has a high success rate, compared to surgical intervention.

How does one tone the throat muscles? Exercises? Talk a lot? Stand on your head and eat spaghetti?
03-13-2013 07:49 PM
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PollCat Offline
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Post: #14
RE: Sleep what is it
(03-13-2013 08:45 AM)zimlich Wrote:  Who is moderating this morning?
The heck with it, I'm gone.

I was on this morning about this time-frame, but did not see anything amiss or edit anything on this thread.


INFORMATION ON APNEA BOARD FORUMS OR ON APNEABOARD.COM SHOULD NOT BE CONSIDERED AS MEDICAL ADVICE. ALWAYS SEEK THE ADVICE OF A PHYSICIAN BEFORE SEEKING TREATMENT FOR MEDICAL CONDITIONS, INCLUDING SLEEP APNEA.
INFORMATION POSTED ON THE APNEA BOARD WEB SITE AND FORUMS ARE PERSONAL OPINION ONLY AND NOT NECESSARILY A STATEMENT OF FACT.
03-13-2013 08:50 PM
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DocWils Offline

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Post: #15
RE: Sleep what is it
(03-13-2013 07:49 PM)JJJ Wrote:  
(03-13-2013 07:18 PM)wilorg Wrote:  Lose weight, tone the throat muscles, etc. That is the best ticket all around, and the only that has a high success rate, compared to surgical intervention.

How does one tone the throat muscles? Exercises? Talk a lot? Stand on your head and eat spaghetti?

Take a Didgeridoo course - it is the most effective way to tone the throat and combat common forms of obstructive sleep apnoea.

Over here we offer this training now as a matter of course as part of the therapy cycle. I haven't taken one yet, but I intend to sign up in the spring, after my persistent hacking cough hopefully dies down.
03-13-2013 09:21 PM
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Sleepster Offline
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Post: #16
RE: Sleep what is it
(03-13-2013 07:18 PM)wilorg Wrote:  Back in my residency, I actually encountered an old mountain man who smoked though is tracheotomy hole, although I am not sure if he did it for a joke or in earnest.

I'll bet that was more effective than any public service campaign to advertise the dangers of smoking.

I think smoking is still prevalent everywhere. We've legislated it out of sight so we don't notice it as much, but there are still a lot of people doing it. I really hate to see young people do it, and there are a lot of them doing it.

Sleepster
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INFORMATION ON APNEA BOARD FORUMS OR ON APNEABOARD.COM SHOULD NOT BE CONSIDERED AS MEDICAL ADVICE. ALWAYS SEEK THE ADVICE OF A PHYSICIAN BEFORE SEEKING TREATMENT FOR MEDICAL CONDITIONS, INCLUDING SLEEP APNEA. INFORMATION POSTED ON THE APNEA BOARD WEB SITE AND FORUMS ARE PERSONAL OPINION ONLY AND NOT NECESSARILY A STATEMENT OF FACT.
03-13-2013 09:34 PM
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jgjones1972 Offline

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Post: #17
RE: Sleep what is it
(03-13-2013 09:21 PM)wilorg Wrote:  Take a Didgeridoo course - it is the most effective way to tone the throat and combat common forms of obstructive sleep apnoea.

Over here we offer this training now as a matter of course as part of the therapy cycle. I haven't taken one yet, but I intend to sign up in the spring, after my persistent hacking cough hopefully dies down.

Didgeridoo courses are hard to find here in the U.S. unless you live in a major metropolitan area.

While didgeridoo's are readily available from on-line retailers and I've seen several sets of instructions for making simple home-made ones; learning to play one properly without personal instruction is said to be rather difficult. I've seen some on-line tutorials; but I can't seem to figure out how that whole "circular breathing" thing works.

In my case it's probably best this way. I'm "on the road" for work all of the time and I'm guessing that hotels would probably frown on enthusiastic didgeridoo playing in the room every night.

On the other hand; if some of us learned how to play them, we could get a didgeridoo band started up. Couldn't be worse than what the kids these days listen to.

(I just now realized how old I'm getting. Making reference to "the kids these days" is incontrovertible proof that one is getting old)
03-13-2013 09:55 PM
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JJJ Offline

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Post: #18
RE: Sleep what is it
(03-13-2013 09:55 PM)jgjones1972 Wrote:  
(03-13-2013 09:21 PM)wilorg Wrote:  Take a Didgeridoo course - it is the most effective way to tone the throat and combat common forms of obstructive sleep apnoea.

Didgeridoo courses are hard to find here in the U.S. unless you live in a major metropolitan area.

Believe it or not, a quick Google search turned up the fact that I am apparently in a U.S. mecca for digeridoo players. There are even stores here that sell them. I may have to check this out. Not sure about the circular breathing, though. Smile
03-13-2013 10:51 PM
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DocWils Offline

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Post: #19
RE: Sleep what is it
The circular breathing is the trick, actually - combined with the force needed to get a proper sound out of that sized tube, it is what tones the throat muscles and makes for a firmer tissue mass. Around here most people start out on long cardboard architect's tubes of the approximate size of a Doo, then graduate to clear plastic or acrylic tubes. You buy the Doo once you've turned hard core. You can get travelling kits that fold up into a small bag. We did a test to see if Aplhorn playing does the same thing, since they both use a similar circular breathing technique and require a certain type of lung power (and hey, its Swiss), but it seems the Doo is the best way. There is a way to mute the Doo so your neighbours don't get bothered, but I don't know it.

I just took part in a test to see if former Scuba Divers suffer from OSA more than the average population. Interesting theory really. I'll let you know the results once they have them in a year or so.
03-14-2013 08:19 AM
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SuperSleeper Offline

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Post: #20
RE: Sleep what is it
(03-13-2013 08:45 AM)zimlich Wrote:  Who is moderating this morning?
The heck with it, I'm gone.

Mary, the forum software is what automatically removed that one word (the name of another website). We have the software configured to automatically remove some words as spam prevention - it's very common on forums like this. In this case, that word was on our list of filtered words because of past activity of a member here who spammed the forum with links to that site.

I'm sending you an email also about this, in case you don't read this.

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INFORMATION ON APNEA BOARD FORUMS OR ON APNEABOARD.COM SHOULD NOT BE CONSIDERED AS MEDICAL ADVICE. ALWAYS SEEK THE ADVICE OF A PHYSICIAN BEFORE SEEKING TREATMENT FOR MEDICAL CONDITIONS, INCLUDING SLEEP APNEA. INFORMATION POSTED ON THE APNEA BOARD WEB SITE AND FORUMS ARE PERSONAL OPINION ONLY AND NOT NECESSARILY A STATEMENT OF FACT.

03-14-2013 09:07 AM
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