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Some Australian Doctors see the problem with Driver Reporting
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Lukie Offline

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Post: #11
RE: Some Australian Doctors see the problem with Driver Reporting
(12-25-2013 02:21 PM)zonk Wrote:  
(12-25-2013 06:17 AM)Moriarty Wrote:  The OSA 'Industry' and the government in Australia also has a part to play in getting the Medical Insurers to recognise that treating OSA provides a downstream 'wellness' benefit to their clients claim profiles and that providing more than the token rebates for machines (and zero rebates for consumables) will be an advantage to their long term bottom line.
Thank you for bringing it up, now as we recognized the problem , we should be able to work on the solution.
If I may draw a parallel with the gay community, this community is very much active and vocal that they make enough loud noises through the media and elsewhere that they've managed to have the laws changed and new ones introduced and there is more to come.
If wanted, we can also make a difference ... greatest oak tree from a little acorn grow

I think people who operate commercial vehicles like planes, train and buses and taxis should be examined for sleep apnea and be required to prove compliance with treatment. But I agree that the average joe and there are many with sleep apnea, would not report symptoms to their doctor thus creating more danger on the highways.
I knew I had sleep apnea even though I was undiagnosed so I stayed off major highways where it is really easy to fall asleep at the wheel on a long trip.
12-25-2013 04:09 PM
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Moriarty Offline

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Post: #12
RE: Some Australian Doctors see the problem with Driver Reporting
(12-25-2013 02:21 PM)zonk Wrote:  ....
If wanted, we can also make a difference ... greatest oak tree from a little acorn grow

Ok Zonk - where to begin I wonder?

Do we need an Australian Sleep Disordered Breathing Support Association - or is there something along those lines in existance already?
12-26-2013 07:03 AM
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Moriarty Offline

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Post: #13
RE: Some Australian Doctors see the problem with Driver Reporting
[quote='Lukie' pid='53388' dateline='1388005782
I think people who operate commercial vehicles like planes, train and buses and taxis should be examined for sleep apnea and be required to prove compliance with treatment. But I agree that the average joe and there are many with sleep apnea, would not report symptoms to their doctor thus creating more danger on the highways.
I knew I had sleep apnea even though I was undiagnosed so I stayed off major highways where it is really easy to fall asleep at the wheel on a long trip.
[/quote]

I am comfortable that the aviation medical would not see a pilot flying with OSA... but I take your point and I agree that there should be a routine screening of HCV drivers for OSA and perhaps other health risk factors relating to road safety..
12-26-2013 07:19 AM
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Lukie Offline

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Post: #14
RE: Some Australian Doctors see the problem with Driver Reporting
In the states, pilots, especially if they have a BMI of over 40 are screened for OSA but.....


"Have there been any accidents or incidents caused by OSA?
The National Transportation Safety Board (NTSB) determined that OSA was a contributing factor in the February13, 2008 Mesa Airlines flight 1002, operated as go!, incident which involved two pilots who fell asleep during the flight. The captain had undiagnosed OSA. The airplane traveled 26 miles past the destination airport before the flight crew resumed communications with air traffic control. All three crewmembers and 40 passengers onboard arrived safely. While not listed as the “cause,” the NTSB database reveals 34 accidents, 32 of which were fatal, involving people who had sleep apnea and 294 incidents involving some type of sleep disorder."

so while there are some screenings for OSA, there are airplane accidents involving pilots with sleep disorders.
12-26-2013 09:57 AM
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zonk Offline

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Post: #15
RE: Some Australian Doctors see the problem with Driver Reporting
(12-26-2013 07:03 AM)Moriarty Wrote:  
(12-25-2013 02:21 PM)zonk Wrote:  ....
If wanted, we can also make a difference ... greatest oak tree from a little acorn grow

Ok Zonk - where to begin I wonder?

Do we need an Australian Sleep Disordered Breathing Support Association - or is there something along those lines in existance already?
I think we need to talk to someone like Nick Xenophon independent senator for South Australia ... maybe a private member bill to change the system of insurance reimbursement and high prices in Australia

Sept 2010 ACCC accepts court enforceable undertaking from ResMed Asia Pacific Limited
http://www.accc.gov.au/media-release/acc...ic-limited
12-27-2013 06:22 PM
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DeepBreathing Offline
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Post: #16
RE: Some Australian Doctors see the problem with Driver Reporting
(12-27-2013 06:22 PM)zonk Wrote:  I think we need to talk to someone like Nick Xenophon independent senator for South Australia ... maybe a private member bill to change the system of insurance reimbursement and high prices in Australia

You beat me to it Zonk - Xenophon is one of the few members of federal parliament with any common sense, and he's not driven by ideologies. But before involving a senator, we need to carefully consider what we want out of this, and clearly enunciate our requirements. As I see it, there are a number of things wrong with the system at the moment:

  1. PAP machines are just too darned expensive. Resmed sell their machines in the US for half the price they do here. Something for ACCC to look at?
  2. Insurance companies only pay a pittance towards the cost of a machine. (Medibank Private refunded $500 on the cost of a $4000 VPAP Adapt)
  3. The medical profession in general don't treat apnea all that seriously...
  4. ...because the population at large (including myself six months ago) don't think of apnea as being a serious problem...
  5. ...Therefore it's a very small market here, which justifies the high prices.

Some of these things can be looked at by the government, but a lot of it is just market forces.

On the other hand, there are some very good things about our system:
  1. In general we can get to see a doctor more or less when we need to
  2. A sleep study isn't all that expensive (and with hospital cover it's effectively free)
  3. We don't need a prescription to purchase a machine or to adjust the pressures
  4. We don't get the stuffing around between insurance, doctor and DME that our American friends do

We need to be careful that any changes are not in the direction of more regulation (eg needing prescriptions). And we need to be careful not to give Resmed an excuse to take all their manufacturing off-shore. I wouldn't feel nearly as safe with a foreign-made PAP machine.

All campaigns need clear objectives. They need to build popular support, which will only come from popular knowledge and understanding of the problem. So we need to clearly define the objectives, work out how to publicise the cause, and only then start looking at any political intervention. Maybe before talking to Xenophon we need to talk to somebody like Sophie Scott at the ABC, or maybe the Catalyst people. Catalyst certainly got a LOT of publicity for their episodes on cholesterol and statins.

OK, there's been a bit of thinking out loud here - maybe I can summarise my own thoughts:

  1. We need to raise the community and medical industry's awareness of apnea as a very serious health issue
  2. ...Thereby increasing the number of people diagnosed and increasing the size of the market
  3. We need to get the insurance funds to see that encouraging people onto PAP treatment will lower their costs in the long run, and therefore increase their payments
  4. We need to impose market or regulatory pricing controls on the cost of machines and accessories
  5. We don't want to give Resmed a reason to go offshore
  6. We don't want to get bound up in regulations or a complex American style system

DeepBreathing
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INFORMATION ON APNEA BOARD FORUMS OR ON APNEABOARD.COM SHOULD NOT BE CONSIDERED AS MEDICAL ADVICE. ALWAYS SEEK THE ADVICE OF A PHYSICIAN BEFORE SEEKING TREATMENT FOR MEDICAL CONDITIONS, INCLUDING SLEEP APNEA. INFORMATION POSTED ON THE APNEA BOARD WEB SITE AND FORUMS ARE PERSONAL OPINION ONLY AND NOT NECESSARILY A STATEMENT OF FACT.
12-28-2013 03:25 AM
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Moriarty Offline

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Post: #17
RE: Some Australian Doctors see the problem with Driver Reporting
That all sounds like a good idea... I know a communications consultant. - I might have a chat next time I see her....
12-29-2013 05:12 AM
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zonk Offline

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Post: #18
RE: Some Australian Doctors see the problem with Driver Reporting
(12-26-2013 07:03 AM)Moriarty Wrote:  Do we need an Australian Sleep Disordered Breathing Support Association - or is there something along those lines in existance already?
Sleep Disorder Australia (SDA) ... Per board rules, link is not allowed as they have ads for CPAP sales
History of SDA
In 1985 the treatment of sleep apnea took a great leap forward with the development of CPAP for home use. There were two sleep support groups in Australia at that time. In NSW the Sleep Apnea Research Association (SARA) was formed with the support of the Sleep Disorders Unit of Royal Prince Alfred Hospital, and in South Australia, Apnea Incorporated was formed with the assistance of the Royal Adelaide Hospital Sleep Clinic. Activities included seminars and awareness programs, information distributed via brochures and telephone enquiries, regular newsletter production and small fundraising events.

By 1994 sleep apnea support groups had started in Victoria, Queensland, Tasmania and the ACT. In November 1994, a meeting was held in Sydney with representatives from all the groups. At this meeting, it was unanimously agreed to form a national group with the name Sleep Disorders Australia (SDA).

SDA Branch Committees in all states now act primarily to assist the members in the same way they did in 1985, through awareness programs, information distribution, newsletter production and fundraising events. Sleep apnea education and awareness programs have been put together, and talks are delivered by all state groups. All branches agree, however, that there is much more SDA can and should do on behalf of its members. Issues include federal and state lobbying for assistance to sufferers, education programs for patients and relatives, self-help groups to assist with problems, and occupational health and safety awareness for employers in relation to sleep disorders.
_________________________________________________________

Not only ResMed, all CPAP manufactures sell their machines, masks and other accessories at higher price in Australia even Chinese made machines selling in US at a fraction of the price sold in Australia

Philips-Respironics Pricing Policy (price fixing in US)
http://www.apneaboard.com/forums/Thread-...ing-Policy
12-29-2013 01:56 PM
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DeepBreathing Offline
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Post: #19
RE: Some Australian Doctors see the problem with Driver Reporting
(12-29-2013 01:56 PM)zonk Wrote:  
(12-26-2013 07:03 AM)Moriarty Wrote:  Do we need an Australian Sleep Disordered Breathing Support Association - or is there something along those lines in existance already?
Sleep Disorder Australia (SDA) .

They've kept a low profile! I never heard of them before your post.

DeepBreathing
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INFORMATION ON APNEA BOARD FORUMS OR ON APNEABOARD.COM SHOULD NOT BE CONSIDERED AS MEDICAL ADVICE. ALWAYS SEEK THE ADVICE OF A PHYSICIAN BEFORE SEEKING TREATMENT FOR MEDICAL CONDITIONS, INCLUDING SLEEP APNEA. INFORMATION POSTED ON THE APNEA BOARD WEB SITE AND FORUMS ARE PERSONAL OPINION ONLY AND NOT NECESSARILY A STATEMENT OF FACT.
12-30-2013 08:36 PM
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zonk Offline

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Post: #20
RE: Some Australian Doctors see the problem with Driver Reporting
Usually I pick up a copy of their newsletter at the sleep clinic, good info
Here a post copied from them ... Sleep Disorders; Fact Sheets
http://www.apneaboard.com/forums/Thread-Sleep-Disorders-Fact-Sheets

Also Resmed have support group, that gives you an extended warranty and might be helpful if you have some problem with the machine providing the machine purchased from Australia (not overseas)
More like customer service but not a support group as such, basically they,re trying to steer people away from sleep apnea forum like this board and some other boards. They like us to be like sheep and they,re the sheep dog (Kelpie) Dielaughing
12-30-2013 09:13 PM
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