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Started BiPaP treatment, makes things worse. Struggling with the settings.
#31
RE: Started BiPaP treatment, makes things worse. Struggling with the settings.
- Sleeprider -

Jumping the gun again! You're right. Slow and steady. 

I suppose the thing I'm circling around without realising is this: Compared to my initial WatchPAT study, is my recent data better? Or did we just undo the negatives of using my machine with settings that don't suit me? I realise they're not directly comparable, and I do plan to get another WatchPAT study once I've settled into some settings for several weeks.

Side note, today has been one of the better days I've had in quite a while in terms of wakefulness, mood, productivity, anxiety, any measure really. Nice to get chores I've left for weeks done! I know it'll be up and down, but if it's a sign of things to come then I'm hopeful we've done some good. Thank you. 

- Dave -

Thanks for your input! I certainly feel similarly, but as someone with no experience/knowledge/background in this stuff, it's the "good to great therapy" I'm struggling to understand. Do I look like someone who's well treated? Mostly there? Barely better? I've no idea. I guess I didn't realise that's exactly what I was confused with until lately so I articulated my questions poorly.
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#32
RE: Started BiPaP treatment, makes things worse. Struggling with the settings.
(02-06-2021, 10:16 AM)Sleeprider Wrote: Really good questions, and I agree with the decision to continue with these settings and base your choices on results.  Central apnea is consistently inconsistent, and you're asking me about day to day variability?  Trust me, it exists, and we have to rely on trends or you will never stop spinning the dials.  On your last question, let's cross that bridge when we get there and see how high the water is.

Hey, 

Last night I slept less than usual, but it seems like a pretty bad night compared to the others. Is this what you'd expect as normal variation, or could it be chin-tucking or something else?

Images attached for advanced and two biggest problem areas.


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#33
RE: Started BiPaP treatment, makes things worse. Struggling with the settings.
The word variation is key. We will watch for trends.
Sleeprider
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#34
RE: Started BiPaP treatment, makes things worse. Struggling with the settings.
Alright, sounds good! I don't know what I'm looking for in order to distinguish between variation and other things (like the more obvious centrals caused by excess pressure you highlighted way earlier). 

I might not be around the next few days then unless something pops up. 

Is there any way I can message you to discuss details around sending you something as a thank you for all of this?
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#35
RE: Started BiPaP treatment, makes things worse. Struggling with the settings.
I woke up feeling a little worse than I've been feeling the past few days, and I've had a headache that occasionally follows bad sleep.

Sure enough, my flow limitations were higher, and my data didn't look great. This barely looks any different to when I was using the wrong settings. I do still seem to feel/think a little better than I used to, but it's much less of a change compared to the previous few days / worse than it has been.

I've attached advanced and two random zooms on problem areas.

I know we're looking for a trend, but these random one-off nights are a big part of the problem, and I'd like to be sure I've at least done what I can (I realise they may be untreatable). 

What do you think?


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#36
RE: Started BiPaP treatment, makes things worse. Struggling with the settings.
Something I may have suggested, but in case I did not, consider making some sort of sleep diary notebook. You would want to note down data on OSCAR, say that a certain night's sleep was great, point that good sleep to OSCAR data, conversely bad night's sleep to data also, drawing a line from data to how you felt. This will somewhat chart trends of XYZ, this x was up and I slept poorly, that was down and I felt good...
Dave

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INFORMATION ON APNEA BOARD FORUMS OR ON APNEABOARD.COM SHOULD NOT BE CONSIDERED MEDICAL ADVICE. ALWAYS SEEK THE ADVICE OF A PHYSICIAN BEFORE SEEKING TREATMENT FOR MEDICAL CONDITIONS, INCLUDING SLEEP APNEA. INFORMATION POSTED ON THE APNEA BOARD WEBSITE AND FORUMS ARE PERSONAL OPINION ONLY AND NOT NECESSARILY A STATEMENT OF FACT.
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#37
RE: Started BiPaP treatment, makes things worse. Struggling with the settings.
(02-09-2021, 11:23 AM)SarcasticDave94 Wrote: Something I may have suggested, but in case I did not, consider making some sort of sleep diary notebook. You would want to note down data on OSCAR, say that a certain night's sleep was great, point that good sleep to OSCAR data, conversely bad night's sleep to data also, drawing a line from data to how you felt. This will somewhat chart trends of XYZ, this x was up and I slept poorly, that was down and I felt good...

Hi Dave,

Thanks for that. I've been doing this (only evident in first page of comments, my bad!) and the most consistent thing so far is that the days I have 8-11 flow limitations (the highest for me) I can tell very easily the next day. Not good!

Since adopting the settings SleepRider recommended, I've felt somewhat better. It has caused:

Clear Airway events to increase from 0-1 to 8-15. 
Hypopnoea to decrease from 6-16 to 5-11.
Obstructive to decrease from 1-12 to 0-5.

So it looks like SleepRider's settings basically swapped OA for CA, which has a positive effect on me. And Flow limitations seem like the biggest issue overall, slightly less frequent on these settings but they still happen (last night being evidence).
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#38
RE: Started BiPaP treatment, makes things worse. Struggling with the settings.
OK great, that's good to know. It always helps to put context to charts IMO.

Adding info like that is helpful here, but my main use of that notetaking was personal so you can share with doc is it becomes necessary. And it's for your learning. I felt this way so my x probably did whatever action. I'm that way with my stuff, especially my oxygen level. Example, I'm able to tell if my oxygen level has dropped to 92% before I measure it.
Dave

OSCAR
Standard OSCAR Chart Order
Mask Primer
Dealing With A DME
Soft Cervical Collar Wiki
INFORMATION ON APNEA BOARD FORUMS OR ON APNEABOARD.COM SHOULD NOT BE CONSIDERED MEDICAL ADVICE. ALWAYS SEEK THE ADVICE OF A PHYSICIAN BEFORE SEEKING TREATMENT FOR MEDICAL CONDITIONS, INCLUDING SLEEP APNEA. INFORMATION POSTED ON THE APNEA BOARD WEBSITE AND FORUMS ARE PERSONAL OPINION ONLY AND NOT NECESSARILY A STATEMENT OF FACT.
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#39
RE: Started BiPaP treatment, makes things worse. Struggling with the settings.
That makes sense.

Unfortunately my doctors didn't believe I had a sleep disorder, and with COVID and so forth I can't see anyone anyway. I'm doing this entirely on my own. But I see your point, it's valuable to keep a note of this sort of thing. Thank you.

Just out of curiosity, did you see anything off in my data that I posted earlier?
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#40
RE: Started BiPaP treatment, makes things worse. Struggling with the settings.
Not anything negative of note that I've noticed. Stats are under 5 so it's doing a good job as far as that's concerned. You're starting to feel good benefits from usage so that's positive. I'd not change for the sake of change. I'd try building a trend, see if you can string a few days like this together and evaluate how you feel.
Dave

OSCAR
Standard OSCAR Chart Order
Mask Primer
Dealing With A DME
Soft Cervical Collar Wiki
INFORMATION ON APNEA BOARD FORUMS OR ON APNEABOARD.COM SHOULD NOT BE CONSIDERED MEDICAL ADVICE. ALWAYS SEEK THE ADVICE OF A PHYSICIAN BEFORE SEEKING TREATMENT FOR MEDICAL CONDITIONS, INCLUDING SLEEP APNEA. INFORMATION POSTED ON THE APNEA BOARD WEBSITE AND FORUMS ARE PERSONAL OPINION ONLY AND NOT NECESSARILY A STATEMENT OF FACT.
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