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Successful AHI reduction with APAP + TheraVent
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stcrim Offline

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Joined: Jul 2015

Machine: ResMed S10
Mask Type: Full face mask
Mask Make & Model: Several kinds
Humidifier: Built-in
CPAP Pressure: 7.5 to 12
CPAP Software: SleepyHead

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Sex: Male
Location:

Post: #11
RE: Successful AHI reduction with APAP + TheraVent
Hey Doc,

I don't really have a sleep doctor so to speak. My GP gave me a trial on an APAP at my request at which point it was obvious I had Apnea. I hadn't had a good night's sleep in 20 years until the first night on the APAP.

Adding the exhalation resistance has added to the sense of being well rested and it has further cut down on my nightly bathroom breaks.

I know all this is N=1 but I want to get this right. MY EPR is set at 2 and my pressure is 7.6 to 12. If I go higher the pressure becomes what disturbs my sleep.

I want to get this right and would prefer to do it without the added cost of TheraVent. I am quite comfortable with the resistance it provides but I have to tape my mouth partially shut and use a full face mask or tape completely with 2 inch 3M tape and use a nasal mask or pillow.

Are the CAs because the pressure is too high or too low?
07-08-2015 12:17 PM
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DocWils Offline

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Posts: 1,271
Joined: Jul 2012

Machine: Philips Remstar series 60
Mask Type: Nasal pillows
Mask Make & Model: ResMed P10
Humidifier: same as machine
CPAP Pressure: 5-15
CPAP Software: SleepyHead

Other Comments:

Sex: Male
Location: Switzerland

Post: #12
RE: Successful AHI reduction with APAP + TheraVent
Please see a qualified sleep doc to get this right - a GP simply does not have the knowledge to get your script right for your needs, and frankly, I do not see how you can get anything resembling a true reading based on your current set up - I really think you need to see a proper specialist.

Your CAs would be most likely ( if you do not have complex apnoea, and it is impossible to tell without a proper clinical exam and overnight test) from too high a top pressure, however, there are too many variables here - an ill-fitted mask, mouth breathing, etc, so I really feel now would be a good time to see a specialist and get the testing done properly. Once done, it should be possible to adjust your therapy and your machine and mask requirements to give you the best possible outcome.

The massive numbers of CAs registered in the one sampling you posted might indicate not actual CA events but instead some other form of interrupted breathing or response pressure that your machine is interpreting as a CA. Only a combined pulse-ox and heart monitored testing system could determine that, combined with an EEG. For this you need a sleep clinic test. You have a good start, but you need now to move beyond proof of illness to a proper diagnosis and titration. Also you do not need to tape your mouth shut - there are chin straps to keep your mouth closed, but I am uncertain if they are necessary on full face masks.
(This post was last modified: 07-08-2015 01:32 PM by DocWils.)
07-08-2015 01:30 PM
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quiescence at last Offline

Advisory Members

Posts: 753
Joined: Nov 2014

Machine: REMstar System One with Autoflex
Mask Type: Full face mask
Mask Make & Model: Quattro AirFit F10
Humidifier: yes typical setting = 4
CPAP Pressure: 5-13 Autotritrating CPAP
CPAP Software: SleepyHead EncoreBasic

Other Comments: CMS-50F Plus oximeter /w SPO2 Assistant software. Avowed mouth-breather switching to nose-breathing

Sex: Male
Location: US

Post: #13
RE: Successful AHI reduction with APAP + TheraVent
Can you make another screenshot of 10 minutes from each night.

7.6.15 03:22 to 03:32
compared to
7.7.15 03:08 to 03:18

Can you make another full night that has theravent as well?

It would be great if you could change your y-axis to -80 to +80.

thanks

QAL

Dedicated to QALity sleep.
You'll note I am listed as an Advisory Member. I am honored to be listed as such. See the fine print - Advisory Members as a group provide advice and suggestions to Apnea Board administrators and staff concerning Apnea Board operation and administrative policies. Membership in the Advisory Member group should not be understood as in any way implying medical expertise or qualification for advising Sleep Apnea patients concerning their treatment.
07-08-2015 02:12 PM
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stcrim Offline

Preferred Members

Posts: 26
Joined: Jul 2015

Machine: ResMed S10
Mask Type: Full face mask
Mask Make & Model: Several kinds
Humidifier: Built-in
CPAP Pressure: 7.5 to 12
CPAP Software: SleepyHead

Other Comments:

Sex: Male
Location:

Post: #14
RE: Successful AHI reduction with APAP + TheraVent
Hey Doc - I hate to sound complicated but without a little mouth tape I'll wake up several times in the night with the bottom of my AirSense F10 in my mouth. With nasal pillows and nasal masks, I can blow right past a chin strap. I have purchased the Ultimate Chin Strap but haven't tried it yet.

I went to my GP because a sleep study was $9,000 and my insurance deductible is $10,000. I'm kind of between a rock and a hard place. From having looked at several forums it looks like most sleep doctors are not extremely useful and are unwilling to devote their time to solving these kinds of issues at least here in the US. Although I feel better than I have felt in 20 years.

On a normal night on APAP alone my AHI runs about 7 or 8. That mostly from CAs and Hypopneas. My respiration rate median runs about 17 to 20 so I assume I'm way over breathing, perhaps causing the CAs by washing out Co2. (best guess) I am wide open to suggestions...

Hey QAL - I'm happy to print what you need. A random 10 minutes on either chart may be event filled of very quiet. Tell me what you are looking for.
07-08-2015 03:45 PM
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DocWils Offline

Members-b

Posts: 1,271
Joined: Jul 2012

Machine: Philips Remstar series 60
Mask Type: Nasal pillows
Mask Make & Model: ResMed P10
Humidifier: same as machine
CPAP Pressure: 5-15
CPAP Software: SleepyHead

Other Comments:

Sex: Male
Location: Switzerland

Post: #15
RE: Successful AHI reduction with APAP + TheraVent
The problem is that you need someone who is a qualified specialist to take a look at your case - what you are doing is not a sensible solution and may ultimately do more harm than good (or may not). Even with a pulse-ox, we cannot see the amount of CO2 building up in your bloodstream and we can't see what is really going on - what I do know is there is a huge likelihood that using a Theravent together with a mask is simply hiding the real therapeutic results and that is not a good thing. As such, a specialist would be a better idea - please go to the nearest hospital that has a sleep lab in the respiratory medicine department, or if you suspect that you really have Central Apnoea rather than pressure caused CAs, in the neurology department, and get it checked out. I am afraid it will still be expensive, but even a table consult with a specialist in that department will be better than trying to guess things here with all the (very helpful and nice) locals pitching in, even without a titration, and that will not run you 9 grand.
07-08-2015 04:05 PM
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quiescence at last Offline

Advisory Members

Posts: 753
Joined: Nov 2014

Machine: REMstar System One with Autoflex
Mask Type: Full face mask
Mask Make & Model: Quattro AirFit F10
Humidifier: yes typical setting = 4
CPAP Pressure: 5-13 Autotritrating CPAP
CPAP Software: SleepyHead EncoreBasic

Other Comments: CMS-50F Plus oximeter /w SPO2 Assistant software. Avowed mouth-breather switching to nose-breathing

Sex: Male
Location: US

Post: #16
RE: Successful AHI reduction with APAP + TheraVent
I explained the specific locations I was interested in (exact time on exact days). Thanks. You could send me a SD, but that would be really sticking my nose in. Smile

You sounded like you wanted to state your case, and if you want to do this we can take it to the PM. I do that sometimes, especially if my interest is piqued. What you say is interesting.

QAL

Dedicated to QALity sleep.
You'll note I am listed as an Advisory Member. I am honored to be listed as such. See the fine print - Advisory Members as a group provide advice and suggestions to Apnea Board administrators and staff concerning Apnea Board operation and administrative policies. Membership in the Advisory Member group should not be understood as in any way implying medical expertise or qualification for advising Sleep Apnea patients concerning their treatment.
07-08-2015 08:31 PM
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stcrim Offline

Preferred Members

Posts: 26
Joined: Jul 2015

Machine: ResMed S10
Mask Type: Full face mask
Mask Make & Model: Several kinds
Humidifier: Built-in
CPAP Pressure: 7.5 to 12
CPAP Software: SleepyHead

Other Comments:

Sex: Male
Location:

Post: #17
RE: Successful AHI reduction with APAP + TheraVent
QAL - I am open to get to the bottom of this. I'm not sure if I did the images correctly, please let me know. I did not understand the axis of -80 to +80. I am also wide open to PM

http://candsnet.com/images/7.6.15ex.JPG
and
http://candsnet.com/images/7.7.15ex.JPG
07-08-2015 08:57 PM
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quiescence at last Offline

Advisory Members

Posts: 753
Joined: Nov 2014

Machine: REMstar System One with Autoflex
Mask Type: Full face mask
Mask Make & Model: Quattro AirFit F10
Humidifier: yes typical setting = 4
CPAP Pressure: 5-13 Autotritrating CPAP
CPAP Software: SleepyHead EncoreBasic

Other Comments: CMS-50F Plus oximeter /w SPO2 Assistant software. Avowed mouth-breather switching to nose-breathing

Sex: Male
Location: US

Post: #18
RE: Successful AHI reduction with APAP + TheraVent
yep. I did not get axis on one. not real sure, but my interpretation is you were asleep on 7.6. (that 10 minutes) but were either awake or potentially in REM sleep in the 7.7. clip.

since your respiration was not faster 7.7. but the flow rate definitely appears much lower, I would say you were either awake or very light sleep, though calm. I would have expected less CA or any A in that state (just as you recorded). It does make me wonder whether your SpO2 was low in that timeframe.

tell my your minute volume for both clips, if you would. thanks.

QAL

Dedicated to QALity sleep.
You'll note I am listed as an Advisory Member. I am honored to be listed as such. See the fine print - Advisory Members as a group provide advice and suggestions to Apnea Board administrators and staff concerning Apnea Board operation and administrative policies. Membership in the Advisory Member group should not be understood as in any way implying medical expertise or qualification for advising Sleep Apnea patients concerning their treatment.
07-09-2015 12:08 AM
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stcrim Offline

Preferred Members

Posts: 26
Joined: Jul 2015

Machine: ResMed S10
Mask Type: Full face mask
Mask Make & Model: Several kinds
Humidifier: Built-in
CPAP Pressure: 7.5 to 12
CPAP Software: SleepyHead

Other Comments:

Sex: Male
Location:

Post: #19
RE: Successful AHI reduction with APAP + TheraVent
QAL - Here are the two charts you asked for:
http://candsnet.com/images/7.6.15MV.JPG
http://candsnet.com/images/7.7.15MV.JPG

At some point in time I would sure love to know how you are reading these charts an gathering information like asleep vs not asleep. I think it would be very helpful to understand those things as I progress.

Thank you!
07-09-2015 07:34 AM
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quiescence at last Offline

Advisory Members

Posts: 753
Joined: Nov 2014

Machine: REMstar System One with Autoflex
Mask Type: Full face mask
Mask Make & Model: Quattro AirFit F10
Humidifier: yes typical setting = 4
CPAP Pressure: 5-13 Autotritrating CPAP
CPAP Software: SleepyHead EncoreBasic

Other Comments: CMS-50F Plus oximeter /w SPO2 Assistant software. Avowed mouth-breather switching to nose-breathing

Sex: Male
Location: US

Post: #20
RE: Successful AHI reduction with APAP + TheraVent
(07-08-2015 02:12 PM)quiescence at last Wrote:  Can you make another screenshot of 10 minutes from each night.

7.6.15 03:22 to 03:32
compared to
7.7.15 03:08 to 03:18

Can you make another full night that has theravent as well?

It would be great if you could change your y-axis to -80 to +80.

thanks

QAL

It appears that you swapped these periods, can you try again. also right clicking on the axis part of the chart, you should see how to set y-axis overrides.

you should set overrides on all the charts you wish to compare one night to another.

thanks.

QAL

Dedicated to QALity sleep.
You'll note I am listed as an Advisory Member. I am honored to be listed as such. See the fine print - Advisory Members as a group provide advice and suggestions to Apnea Board administrators and staff concerning Apnea Board operation and administrative policies. Membership in the Advisory Member group should not be understood as in any way implying medical expertise or qualification for advising Sleep Apnea patients concerning their treatment.
07-09-2015 08:03 AM
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