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Teeth clenching started with CPAP, now worse.
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KMatch Offline

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Post: #1
Teeth clenching started with CPAP, now worse.
Alright, previously I commented about my teeth hurting since starting cpap due to my lower jaw forcing itself forward pushing my upper teeth outward. I took the advice here and got some mouth guards. (Thanks for that!) But... it seems to be complicating things. I seem to be biting these things so hard my teeth still hurt as well as I'm nearly chewing through the plastic separator in the mouth guards. Again, what causes this, and how can I reduce this "tension"?

I went out of town a couple days and left the cpap at home but took the guards thinking "grinding" might be part of my overall sleep problem. I didn't need them without the leaf blower attached to my face. But I certainly missed sleeping with the cpap as noted with multiple bathroom trips versus zero when on the hose.
05-25-2016 09:22 AM
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chill Online

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Post: #2
RE: Teeth clenching started with CPAP, now worse.
My guess is that stress and anxiety over using the CPAP machine is what is making you do this. I did this for the first week or two then gradually stopped. You mentioned in an earlier message that "I wake up multiple times with my front teeth hurting". Have you noted the time and correlated it to what is happening in SleepyHead? Is there a pattern? Does it happen only when the pressure increases at night? If so, you could try a lower pressure on the high end until you adjust to using the machine.

Referring to is as a "leaf blower" suggests a somewhat negative attitude. The words we use can have a powerful effect on our attitude and reality. Some CBT therapy might help with a producing a better mindset which may reduce your nighttime stress.

You may find this of interest related to your OSA: http://askthedentist.com/why-you-grind-your-teeth/ but it does not seem to match your problem.
05-25-2016 11:18 AM
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Sleepster Offline
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Post: #3
RE: Teeth clenching started with CPAP, now worse.
(05-25-2016 09:22 AM)KMatch Wrote:  I seem to be biting these things so hard my teeth still hurt as well as I'm nearly chewing through the plastic separator in the mouth guards.

This is evidence that a professional can use to design a night guard for you that will hopefully work better.

Quote:I went out of town a couple days and left the cpap at home but took the guards thinking "grinding" might be part of my overall sleep problem. I didn't need them without the leaf blower attached to my face.

A lot of the problems we experience, in fact most of the problems, are transient. They go away as we adapt to the therapy. I always encourage people to not sleep without the CPAP machine because it interferes with the adaptation and prolongs the adaptation period.

My guess is that it's anxiety associated with the presence of the CPAP machine. Anxiety doesn't have to be a conscious affair, I believe it can happen to us when we're sleeping. We are so used to having our airway collapse when we start to fall asleep that it becomes the norm for us. Now, with the new CPAP machine it no longer happens, the body continues to expect it, and the mind reacts in weird and unpredictable ways.

I have noticed things like my whole body jerking as I start to fall asleep. It happens a lot less often than it used to. In fact, after almost 5 years of CPAP therapy, it's now rare.

Sleepster
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INFORMATION ON APNEA BOARD FORUMS OR ON APNEABOARD.COM SHOULD NOT BE CONSIDERED AS MEDICAL ADVICE. ALWAYS SEEK THE ADVICE OF A PHYSICIAN BEFORE SEEKING TREATMENT FOR MEDICAL CONDITIONS, INCLUDING SLEEP APNEA. INFORMATION POSTED ON THE APNEA BOARD WEB SITE AND FORUMS ARE PERSONAL OPINION ONLY AND NOT NECESSARILY A STATEMENT OF FACT.
05-25-2016 11:36 AM
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KMatch Offline

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Post: #4
RE: Teeth clenching started with CPAP, now worse.
Let's not mistake my reference to "leaf blowers" as some deep dark psyche as if I'm scared of it - it's quite the opposite. I simply have an open mind to relating "contraptions" that aren't the norm with devices that we use on a daily basis. I was a bit put off by attaching a tire pump, excuse me, CPAP apparatus, for about 2 days. Since then, it's more of a welcoming since I know I won't be getting up during the night and I can also reduce my dependence on nose sprays. No, the teeth clenching appears to be some sort of physical response to the pressure change and not a mental defense. I'd like to think things will adjust but after a week with the mouth guard, I'm not so sure.

I'm not keen on looking at the clock during the night even though I've somewhat tried to tie these clenching events to events on the cpap. I just can't force myself into waking up enough to note the time. I have already dropped the max pressure down by 1 from 9-13.5 to 9x12.5 but I didn't see a change which may also be due to the pressure normally only hitting 11ish anyway. Maybe I should try it back at 10 and see if AHI and such go up and clenching go down?
05-25-2016 05:13 PM
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eseedhouse Online

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Post: #5
RE: Teeth clenching started with CPAP, now worse.
(05-25-2016 05:13 PM)KMatch Wrote:  Let's not mistake my reference to "leaf blowers" as some deep dark psyche as if I'm scared of it - it's quite the opposite. I simply have an open mind to relating "contraptions" that aren't the norm with devices that we use on a daily basis. I was a bit put off by attaching a tire pump, excuse me, CPAP apparatus, for about 2 days.

Your comparison's are not apt ones and do suggest a negative attitude, at least to me. A CPAP machine gets nowhere close the the pressure a leaf blower or a tire pump can put out. A CPAP machine couldn't even blow up a balloon, never mind a tire.

A pressure of 20cm of H20 (about as high as a normal CPAP machine can achieve) is only about 2% of the normal ambient air pressure at sea level. Your own lungs can do much better than that.

Ed Seedhouse
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I am neither a Doctor, nor any other kind of medical professional.

Actually you know, it is what it isn't.
05-25-2016 07:54 PM
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chill Online

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Post: #6
RE: Teeth clenching started with CPAP, now worse.
Are you awake enough to turn the machine off and back on? That would create enough of an interruption that you could identify it SleepyHead.

Personally, I'd be tempted to drop it to 10 for a night and see if that affected the clenching. It leaves your teeth feeling very unpleasant. Or maybe put it on straight CPAP at 10 or 11 and see if it is the pressure changes rather than the pressure that triggers this.

Have you tried a different mask? Maybe the nasal pillows are related to this reaction?

On the bright side, you are sleeping through the night. Three hours is the most I can manage without waking up and getting up and 1.5 to 2 hours is more the norm. I don't think I'd trade that for clenching though...
05-25-2016 08:02 PM
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Sleepster Offline
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Post: #7
RE: Teeth clenching started with CPAP, now worse.
(05-25-2016 05:13 PM)KMatch Wrote:  Let's not mistake my reference to "leaf blowers" as some deep dark psyche as if I'm scared of it - it's quite the opposite.

I wasn't. We have to keep our sense of humor about our condition. I often refer to it as a face full of pressurized air, when in fact it's nothing of the kind.

Quote:No, the teeth clenching appears to be some sort of physical response to the pressure change and not a mental defense. I'd like to think things will adjust but after a week with the mouth guard, I'm not so sure.

It could be a reaction to the force exerted on your face by the tension in the mask straps.

I agree that turning the machine off for a few seconds and then back on again will create a break between what SleepyHead calls sessions. They will then be easy to find on your computer. I used to do the same thing when I was looking for a cause for my fragmented sleep. I never found a physical cause, but as I adapt to CPAP therapy the problem fades, as most problems do.

Sleepster
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INFORMATION ON APNEA BOARD FORUMS OR ON APNEABOARD.COM SHOULD NOT BE CONSIDERED AS MEDICAL ADVICE. ALWAYS SEEK THE ADVICE OF A PHYSICIAN BEFORE SEEKING TREATMENT FOR MEDICAL CONDITIONS, INCLUDING SLEEP APNEA. INFORMATION POSTED ON THE APNEA BOARD WEB SITE AND FORUMS ARE PERSONAL OPINION ONLY AND NOT NECESSARILY A STATEMENT OF FACT.
05-25-2016 08:41 PM
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Daisylouu Offline

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Post: #8
RE: Teeth clenching started with CPAP, now worse.
I have a horrible clenching problem but switched to the Mirage Liberty mask and I have no problems and have never once clenched with it. I can't even try another mask because I need it almost MORE because it solved my clenching problem immediately.
05-25-2016 09:57 PM
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chill Online

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Post: #9
RE: Teeth clenching started with CPAP, now worse.
Daisy, what kind of mask were you wearing when you had the clenching problem?
05-25-2016 10:45 PM
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KMatch Offline

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Post: #10
RE: Teeth clenching started with CPAP, now worse.
(05-25-2016 08:02 PM)chill Wrote:  Are you awake enough to turn the machine off and back on? That would create enough of an interruption that you could identify it SleepyHead.

Personally, I'd be tempted to drop it to 10 for a night and see if that affected the clenching. It leaves your teeth feeling very unpleasant. Or maybe put it on straight CPAP at 10 or 11 and see if it is the pressure changes rather than the pressure that triggers this.

Have you tried a different mask? Maybe the nasal pillows are related to this reaction?

I'll have to try the off/on routine if I get the chance. Good idea! I did drop the pressure to 10.5 last night and while it's too soon to make any judgement, I don't feel as much like my teeth are loose today. It's a start.

(05-25-2016 08:41 PM)Sleepster Wrote:  
Quote:No, the teeth clenching appears to be some sort of physical response to the pressure change and not a mental defense. I'd like to think things will adjust but after a week with the mouth guard, I'm not so sure.

It could be a reaction to the force exerted on your face by the tension in the mask straps.
The pillow I'm using I wear somewhat loose and high on the back of the head. I don't know of anything out there to put less pressure in any area that would effect jaw tension. I'll keep that in mind, though.
05-26-2016 10:06 AM
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