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The DreamStation Foam Removal Thread
#41
RE: The DreamStation Foam Removal Thread
Genius. Plastic welding. A specialty skill like my dad did in the USAF many years ago.
RayBee

~ Self-Treatment - via ApneaBoard experts.
~ Self-Pay - no help from Kaiser other than getting my script, then a pat on the butt and out the door.
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~ Pay no attention to the dog behind the cup, he ain't a docta, and does not give medical advise.

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#42
RE: The DreamStation Foam Removal Thread
Yup, that was going to be my 2nd method of removal if the Coat Hanger Method Didn't work. There was a video of the guy cutting 2 flaps, removing the foam and melting it closed and sealed. I started watching videos on plastic welding techniques haha.
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#43
RE: The DreamStation Foam Removal Thread
I removed my foam two days ago from my dreamstation. for me the flap method is the way to go. I initially tried the go through existing holes but after getting frustrated my machine was in danger of being componentised with a hammer.

The description of what I then did is for information only anyone following this description does so entirely at his or her own risk.

I decided on the flap cutting method but have just used a strong craft knife (Stanley Knife in the UK) and carefully with several strokes to each side of my proposed flap cut into the chamber. I have therefore removed no material. My foam was then removed but not without problems as it was affixed to the case but I'll cover that in a second. The slots were then closed and actually clipped back into place. I then used a soldering iron with an unused tip (did not want to introduce solder and possibly lead) and ran around the joint to give it a complete seal. The plastic is quite thick and only the surface needs to be rejoined do not use a soldering iron that is to hot just sufficient to fuse the edges together. 

So my foam is now removed and nothing added the only material remaining in my machine is that produced by Philips so it cannot be argued at a later date that materials or glues used to re seal the chamber caused potential other health problems.

The chamber itself appears to be fusion or ultrasonically welded together and is not glued. I think that it is in all probability the latter and that this has also affected the foam in my machine causing its adherence to the case. Hopefully it is that and not degradation of the foam. This meant that in my case I required 4 access points in order to cut the residue of the foam from the case. It seemed pointless to allow bits to remain. 

My initial flaps were on the upper part of the lower case. My additional two allowing me to remove the foam adhering to the case in my instance were made on the outer side of the case so that I could use the soldering iron more readily without obstruction from the case

I checked the pressure output from the machine with a water based and digital manometer after surgery and found that the actual pressures were between 0.5 an 1.0 cm/w lower than the displayed pressure on the machines display throughout the range from 6 to 15cm/w. 

Unfortunately I did not check the pressures against the machine before it underwent its operation. 

Pressure relief was also found to be operating correctly with an approximate 3cm/w drop.

I have as a result of the above increased on a temporary basis the pressure of my machine by 1cm/w and my two days on the machine seem normal.

My attacchnents show foam still attached in my machine and the need for additional openings and a sealed opening using the above method.


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#44
RE: The DreamStation Foam Removal Thread
(08-08-2021, 06:49 AM)plasticplumber Wrote: ...The chamber itself appears to be fusion or ultrasonically welded together and is not glued. I think that it is in all probability the latter and that this has also affected the foam in my machine causing its adherence to the case. Hopefully it is that and not degradation of the foam. This meant that in my case I required 4 access points in order to cut the residue of the foam from the case. It seemed pointless to allow bits to remain. 

I checked the pressure output from the machine with a water based and digital manometer after surgery and found that the actual pressures were between 0.5 an 1.0 cm/w lower than the displayed pressure on the machines display throughout the range from 6 to 15cm/w...

This is interesting. I saw this on a video from another person too, where it looked like the foam was adhered somehow to that plastic "rib" in the chamber. I can say with 100% confidence that the foam in my machine was not adhered with anything to any part of the chamber. I wonder if there are multiple variants of these chambers, where some have the foam adhered to that rib, or if it was just foam degradation causing yours to stick...?

As far as pressure goes, that is measured and controlled by a sensor on the opposite side of the blower motor (on its output). So nothing about removing the foam should have any impact on that. The one aspect we could potentially alter is the mass flow rate measurement, if the restrictor grating gets damaged, thus my post about that earlier in this thread. Unfortunately if that did happen, it wouldn't be immediately obvious to the user -- pressure regulation would still work as normal. But sleep event detection and reaction to them would likely be affected.
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#45
RE: The DreamStation Foam Removal Thread
(08-06-2021, 12:50 PM)Zalagar Wrote: Which method did you use to remove the foam, and how did you seal it back up?


Sorry if my post sounded aggressive, I didn't mean it that way at all.

No worries! I hope mine didn't sound that way either. I just wanted to make sure my caution wasn't missed by others, because the coat hanger removal method involves shoving a stiff piece of wire into the parts of the chamber where you could definitely hit that grating if you didn't know better. Damaging that grating is one of the few ways that removing the foam could potentially affect the operation of the machine.

On my own, I did the razor-knife flap-cutting method. They fit so well that they almost re-sealed on their own. For the time being I used foil tape with low-outgassing acrylic adhesive to cover the cut lines and ensure they were sealed (we use this stuff in vacuum for spacecraft & instruments where I work because of its relatively low outgassing). I considered plastic welding it, but this was a fast method that will work fine for a long time. The slits are so small and already seal themselves so well that there is very little chance for any of the internal airflow to even make contact with the adhesive -- I just wanted the chamber to be sealed airtight.
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#46
RE: The DreamStation Foam Removal Thread
(08-05-2021, 07:20 PM)Dafod Wrote: just skimmed the latest posts. When I last was reading on the forum there was a view that just taking out the foam without any alterations could compromise the accuracy of the setup but reading this thread now this seems to no longer be the view - am I correct on this takeway?

From taking my own apart, looking at the sensor/measurement configuration, looking up the part numbers on those sensors to confirm what they were, and also from my own testing of its reported data pre and post foam removal, I'm quite confident that removing the foam has no impact on performance or operation as long as a few things are heeded:
  • Do not damage the holes/ports/grommets where the sensors on the PCB connect to the chamber
  • Do not damage/deform the slotted restrictor grating that sits beneath the side-by-side pair of pressure ports inside the chamber
  • Seal up any flaps/holes made to remove the foam, and do it in a way that there are no obstructions placed into the airflow inside
  • And of course, make sure the machine is reassembled correctly, particularly in regard to getting all the sensors on the PCB sealed back into their grommets and ports on the chamber.
I've been using mine for a few weeks now without the foam and it's barely any louder than it used to be, *and* I've had zero days of waking up with nasal congestion, which used to happen once in a while before. Could be coincidence there, but it's working great and all measured flow parameters in OSCAR are tracking right where they used to.
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#47
RE: The DreamStation Foam Removal Thread
The port with the divider feeds the temperature/humidity sensor chip. One video shows the person breaking off the tube. It goes through a hole in the foam, so the foam can be pushed to the bottom of the channel and pulled under the tube.  Be sure you replace all the seals. There are 4 seals - temp/humidity port, double grommet for the flow sensor, and a single grommet for the output pressure.
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#48
RE: The DreamStation Foam Removal Thread
I think the grid is an attempt at laminar flow accross the sensor to eliminate turbulance at this point and stableize the reading. I ensured that this and the ports were not damaged. I think along the same lines as you in that the calibration of the manometer in my machine may have been slightly out of calibration before i put my machine under the knife. Water manometers dont lie electronics and Philips may. After all these years I should have checked what pressures I was actually getting before I started.
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#49
RE: The DreamStation Foam Removal Thread
Hello, I am not quite sure if there is a like for like foam that can be bought. If so, please let me know where I can buy this and I can do the following myself and report my findings.

In absence there of, would someone kindly be able to drop a little piece of foam into (hot/warm) water and see if it disintegrates?
If you also are able to dip a piece in acetone and see what happens?
I am trying to find out if I can simply dip the plastic tub in either hot water or acetone to "dissolve" the foam away.
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#50
RE: The DreamStation Foam Removal Thread
        I seem to be the only one with a DreamStation Go.
So...
I took mine apart today after getting the Tork screwdrivers (needed T10 and T8)
and...
there is no foam like in the DreamStation foam removal videos!

Picture of the insides attached.

(I managed to put all back together and it still works)
yet the Go was included in recall

Am I missing something?

Maybe there is foam in that inlet chamber below the motor?
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