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Therapy numbers, lack of them, weight loss, etc
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Galactus Offline

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Posts: 1,384
Joined: Jan 2014

Machine: Phillips Respironics System One PRS1 DS760P Auto BiPAP
Mask Type: Nasal pillows
Mask Make & Model: ResMed Airfit P10 Nasal Pillow
Humidifier: System One Heated Humidifier + Climate Line
CPAP Pressure: E/I 13/20 PS 4/7 BiFlex 3
CPAP Software: SleepyHead EncoreBasic

Other Comments: Sleep can be a good thing.

Sex: Male
Location: USA

Post: #31
RE: Therapy numbers, lack of them, weight loss, etc
Zonk, NickDanger, retired_Guy; Ok, I get you a few of those models would be good, I understand. BUT, what would be the DREAM MACHINE to look for? I mean if I am going to pay cash for it out of pocket I want the best one I can get, so what is at least the top two of either models?

As to CL and warranties, and scripts, CL pretty much is what it is, if you go and look at it, and you see it you can have a pretty good idea of what you are looking at. If it was used by a smoker you can tell right off, I am an ex 5 pack a day smoker and I can smell that smell from 100 yards away no matter how well you cleaned it. As to warranty, for the pricing I think it is worth the risk if the price is right. As to scripts it was my understanding that a medical provider can not sell the unit without a script but a private party owner can do as they please, and is not required to have any script, which of course I do anyway.

In any event here there are about 25-50 machines on CL on a weekly basis, the hardest part is figuring out what machine they have as most of the geniuses listings read "SLEEP APNEA MACHINE, hardly used by someone that couldn't get used to it, original price $1500 yours for $100" So that makes it a bit harder as I have to keep messaging and saying; Hey can you tell me the model number. But beyond that there is a wide selection of them out there it seems.

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08-16-2014 02:29 PM
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vsheline Online

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Posts: 1,907
Joined: Jul 2012

Machine: S9 VPAP Adapt (USA Model# 36007, not better 36037 or 36067)
Mask Type: Full face mask
Mask Make & Model: F10 or SimPlus w/ 2Liners. MirageQuatro & Gecko gel pad
Humidifier: H5i
CPAP Pressure: 15 EPAP, PS 5-10
CPAP Software: ResScan

Other Comments: Marfan Syndrome, chronic bradycardia, occasional Cheyne-Stokes Respiration

Sex: Male
Location: California, USA

Post: #32
RE: Therapy numbers, lack of them, weight loss, etc
(08-16-2014 02:29 PM)Galactus Wrote:  BUT, what would be the DREAM MACHINE to look for? I mean if I am going to pay cash for it out of pocket I want the best one I can get, so what is at least the top two of either models?
...
In any event here there are about 25-50 machines on CL on a weekly basis.... I have to keep messaging and saying; Hey can you tell me the model number.

Hi Galactus,

The model number is not called the model#. It is called the REF#.

Take out the water tank and turn over your machine to see whether the REF# is for a 50 series or a 60 series machine. Since your machine is new, it should be a DS260 with the humidifier which allows a heated hose (the 50 series machines and humidifiers do not allow heated hose to be used and rain-out would be a potential problem in the winter).

I would suggest buying at least the DS560 (see REF# list in post 26 above) with or without humidifier and heated hose. (You don't need two humidifiers but there is a small chance that a back up humidifier will be useful at some point.)

But since your pressure is very high (18 cm H2O), in my view the dream machine for you would be the PRS1 BiPAP Auto (DS760). At some point you may find you are swallowing a lot of air and the BiPAP Auto would allow you to control that and would likely lower your average therapy pressure, which is usually beneficial in avoiding the many problems which can slowly, gradually develop with long term CPAP treatment at high pressures.

Constant high treatment pressures like 18 may ("may", not necessarily "will") in future contribute to developing or worsening:
(1) glaucoma,
(2) hearing problems like tinnitus or deafness, especially if in future you will ever need to take antibiotics, many of which can cause permanent hearing loss or tinnitus or balance problems and which inner ear pressure from CPAP may worsen,
(3) teeth and jaw alignment problems developing very gradually over months or years (the higher the pressure the tighter the straps usually need to be, so the tighter your teeth and jaw are pulled back, gradually causing problems),
(4) aerophagia, etc.

It is normal for patients to be switched to APAP or even bi-level machines if the patients complain about or have difficulty with high pressures (like 15 or higher). The complaint can be as simple as "I am still tired during the day and am not sleeping well because of the uncomfortable effort to breath against the high pressure."

So simply complaining about the high pressure to your doctor (or perhaps simply saying that you have been researching it and are concerned about the potential long term effects of high treatment pressures and would like to switch to APAP to lower your average treatment pressure) and asking your doctor for a new prescription is often all that is needed to get an APAP precription. Usually best to suggest to doctor to prescribe a specific model to avoid later needing to shop several DMEs to find one willing to dispense the model you are looking for.

To get insurance to pay for bi-level machine you might need to fail compliance on the CPAP or APAP and definitely would need to get pre-authorization for a special bi-level titration, which would need to show that your apneas are well-treated when using bi-level therapy.

But if you see a used DS760 BiPAP Auto cheap on CL, do consider picking up what would be an awesome machine. The DS760 bi-level Auto can be adjusted to operate like the DS560 APAP, if desired.

Take care,
--- Vaughn

Membership in the Advisory Member group should not be understood as in any way implying medical expertise or qualification for advising Sleep Apnea patients concerning their treatment. The Advisory Member group provides advice and suggestions to Apnea Board administrators and staff on matters concerning Apnea Board operation and administrative policies - not on matters concerning treatment for Sleep Apnea. I think it is now too late to change the name of the group but I think Voting Member group would perhaps have been a more descriptive name for the group.
(This post was last modified: 08-16-2014 05:13 PM by vsheline.)
08-16-2014 04:42 PM
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archangle Offline
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Posts: 3,159
Joined: Feb 2012

Machine: ResMed S9 AutoSet
Mask Type: Nasal pillows
Mask Make & Model: ResMed Swift FX
Humidifier: ResMed S9 H5i
CPAP Pressure: 16-20
CPAP Software: ResScan SleepyHead EncoreBasic

Other Comments: Happy PAPper

Sex: Undisclosed
Location: USA

Post: #33
RE: Therapy numbers, lack of them, weight loss, etc
(08-16-2014 02:29 PM)Galactus Wrote:  BUT, what would be the DREAM MACHINE to look for?

#1 ResMed S9 AutoSet
#2 Philips Respironics PRS1 Auto - Close second. I wouldn't argue with someone who put it first.
#3 S9 Elite - A step down because it's not Auto, but a darn good manual CPAP
#4 PRS1 Pro. - Roughly tied with S9 Elite.

I wouldn't consider anything else.

The S9 VPAP Auto or PRS1 BiPAP Auto might be better in some sense, but you'll probably not find them, or will pay a lot more.

Don't get a ResMed S8 or Respironics M series. Good machines, but but far outstripped by the current models.

PRS1 has 50 series and 60 series machines. The 50 series doesn't have a heated hose option. The 60 series machine con support a heated hose, but they sell a version of the humidifier that does NOT support the heated hose.

All S9's support the optional heated hose.

Get the free SleepyHead software here.
Useful links.
Click here for information on the main alternative to CPAP.
If it's midnight and a DME tells you it's dark outside, go and check it yourself.
(This post was last modified: 08-16-2014 05:20 PM by archangle.)
08-16-2014 05:16 PM
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PaytonA Offline
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Posts: 3,007
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Machine: ResMed S9 VPAP Auto
Mask Type: Full face mask
Mask Make & Model: Resmed Mirage Quattro
Humidifier: H5i(distilled-top up)
CPAP Pressure: VAuto MinE14.0 MaxI 20.6 PS4.0
CPAP Software: ResScan SleepyHead

Other Comments:

Sex: Male
Location: Orange County,California

Post: #34
RE: Therapy numbers, lack of them, weight loss, etc
I agree with vsheline, if you get the BiPAP(PS) or VPAP(Resmed) auto it might be better. At a pressure of 18 you are right on the cusp of where they prescribe bilevel machines. With the Resmed VPAP Auto you can get it to act as a straight VPAP (S mode) or as a CPAP. You can also get it to emulate an Autoset as well as being a bilevel auto machine. I have one and I love it. I am fairly sure that the PS machine that vsheline discussed is as adaptable and a comparable machine. Both bilevel auto machines are comparable but have individually different strong points.

Best Regards,

PaytonA
08-16-2014 06:48 PM
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Galactus Offline

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Posts: 1,384
Joined: Jan 2014

Machine: Phillips Respironics System One PRS1 DS760P Auto BiPAP
Mask Type: Nasal pillows
Mask Make & Model: ResMed Airfit P10 Nasal Pillow
Humidifier: System One Heated Humidifier + Climate Line
CPAP Pressure: E/I 13/20 PS 4/7 BiFlex 3
CPAP Software: SleepyHead EncoreBasic

Other Comments: Sleep can be a good thing.

Sex: Male
Location: USA

Post: #35
RE: Therapy numbers, lack of them, weight loss, etc
vsheline, archangle, PaytonA; As always thanks os very much, these are the answers I needed.

Phillips Respironices BiPap Auto BiFlex with Remstar Heated Humidifier New for $350?? Deal or no deal?

If everyone thinks alike, then someone isn't thinking.
Everyone knows something, together we could know everything.
08-16-2014 10:59 PM
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vsheline Online

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Posts: 1,907
Joined: Jul 2012

Machine: S9 VPAP Adapt (USA Model# 36007, not better 36037 or 36067)
Mask Type: Full face mask
Mask Make & Model: F10 or SimPlus w/ 2Liners. MirageQuatro & Gecko gel pad
Humidifier: H5i
CPAP Pressure: 15 EPAP, PS 5-10
CPAP Software: ResScan

Other Comments: Marfan Syndrome, chronic bradycardia, occasional Cheyne-Stokes Respiration

Sex: Male
Location: California, USA

Post: #36
RE: Therapy numbers, lack of them, weight loss, etc
(08-16-2014 10:59 PM)Galactus Wrote:  Phillips Respironices BiPap Auto BiFlex with Remstar Heated Humidifier New for $350?? Deal or no deal?

Fabulous. Sounds like a series 50 machine (check the REF#).

Terrific price IF IT IS A SYSTEM ONE MACHINE. (I think the previous generation which are not series DS750 or DS760 Phillips Respironics System One machines use a screwy proprietary smart card which does not record as much data and is not compatible with SleepyHead.)

Get the Clinician Manual for the machine and read up on how to check the total hours the machine has been used. Can meet seller in an area where power is available to turn on the machine and check that it runs quietly and the hrs of use.

Good luck!

Membership in the Advisory Member group should not be understood as in any way implying medical expertise or qualification for advising Sleep Apnea patients concerning their treatment. The Advisory Member group provides advice and suggestions to Apnea Board administrators and staff on matters concerning Apnea Board operation and administrative policies - not on matters concerning treatment for Sleep Apnea. I think it is now too late to change the name of the group but I think Voting Member group would perhaps have been a more descriptive name for the group.
(This post was last modified: 08-16-2014 11:24 PM by vsheline.)
08-16-2014 11:16 PM
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Galactus Offline

Advisory Members

Posts: 1,384
Joined: Jan 2014

Machine: Phillips Respironics System One PRS1 DS760P Auto BiPAP
Mask Type: Nasal pillows
Mask Make & Model: ResMed Airfit P10 Nasal Pillow
Humidifier: System One Heated Humidifier + Climate Line
CPAP Pressure: E/I 13/20 PS 4/7 BiFlex 3
CPAP Software: SleepyHead EncoreBasic

Other Comments: Sleep can be a good thing.

Sex: Male
Location: USA

Post: #37
RE: Therapy numbers, lack of them, weight loss, etc
(08-16-2014 11:16 PM)vsheline Wrote:  
(08-16-2014 10:59 PM)Galactus Wrote:  Phillips Respironices BiPap Auto BiFlex with Remstar Heated Humidifier New for $350?? Deal or no deal?

Fabulous. Sounds like a series 50 machine (check the REF#), but terrific price.

Get the Clinician Manual for the machine and read up on how to check the total hours the machine has been used. Can meet seller in an area where power is available to turn on the machine and check that it runs quietly and the hrs of use.

Good luck!

I messaged for the number, he has a single picture that looks like this (his says Bipap Auto though not Pro2);
Yes, will definitely check and he claims no hours as new etc., but agreed must test. Trust but verify!

[Image: respironics_bipap_AutoSV_1063372.JPG]


Also found a ds760ts with everything but he is asking $900 which I believe to be too much, also claims to be brand new.

If everyone thinks alike, then someone isn't thinking.
Everyone knows something, together we could know everything.
(This post was last modified: 08-16-2014 11:26 PM by Galactus.)
08-16-2014 11:24 PM
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vsheline Online

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Posts: 1,907
Joined: Jul 2012

Machine: S9 VPAP Adapt (USA Model# 36007, not better 36037 or 36067)
Mask Type: Full face mask
Mask Make & Model: F10 or SimPlus w/ 2Liners. MirageQuatro & Gecko gel pad
Humidifier: H5i
CPAP Pressure: 15 EPAP, PS 5-10
CPAP Software: ResScan

Other Comments: Marfan Syndrome, chronic bradycardia, occasional Cheyne-Stokes Respiration

Sex: Male
Location: California, USA

Post: #38
RE: Therapy numbers, lack of them, weight loss, etc
(08-16-2014 11:24 PM)Galactus Wrote:  I messaged for the number, he has a single picture that looks like this;
Yes, will definitely check and he claims no hours as new etc., but agreed must test. Trust but verify!

[Image: respironics_bipap_AutoSV_1063372.JPG]


Also found a ds760ts with everything but he is asking $900 which I believe to be too much, also claims to be brand new.

Oops, I cannot recommend that old model. It is not PRS1 DS750 or DS760.

I updated my earlier post, but your reply captured my initial reply.

"Terrific price IF IT IS A SYSTEM ONE MACHINE. (I think the previous generation which are not series DS750 or DS760 Phillips Respironics System One machines use a screwy proprietary smart card which does not record as much data and is not compatible with SleepyHead.)"

For comparison, check out price for used DS750 or DS760 at Supplier #2, which would be professionally cleaned and would include a (short) warrantee and probably new water tank and hose.

Good luck.

Membership in the Advisory Member group should not be understood as in any way implying medical expertise or qualification for advising Sleep Apnea patients concerning their treatment. The Advisory Member group provides advice and suggestions to Apnea Board administrators and staff on matters concerning Apnea Board operation and administrative policies - not on matters concerning treatment for Sleep Apnea. I think it is now too late to change the name of the group but I think Voting Member group would perhaps have been a more descriptive name for the group.
(This post was last modified: 08-16-2014 11:35 PM by vsheline.)
08-16-2014 11:31 PM
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Galactus Offline

Advisory Members

Posts: 1,384
Joined: Jan 2014

Machine: Phillips Respironics System One PRS1 DS760P Auto BiPAP
Mask Type: Nasal pillows
Mask Make & Model: ResMed Airfit P10 Nasal Pillow
Humidifier: System One Heated Humidifier + Climate Line
CPAP Pressure: E/I 13/20 PS 4/7 BiFlex 3
CPAP Software: SleepyHead EncoreBasic

Other Comments: Sleep can be a good thing.

Sex: Male
Location: USA

Post: #39
RE: Therapy numbers, lack of them, weight loss, etc
(08-16-2014 11:31 PM)vsheline Wrote:  
(08-16-2014 11:24 PM)Galactus Wrote:  I messaged for the number, he has a single picture that looks like this;
Yes, will definitely check and he claims no hours as new etc., but agreed must test. Trust but verify!

[Image: respironics_bipap_AutoSV_1063372.JPG]


Also found a ds760ts with everything but he is asking $900 which I believe to be too much, also claims to be brand new.

Oops, I cannot recommend that old model. It is not PRS1 DS750 or DS760.

For comparison, check out price for used DS750 or DS760 at Supplier #2, which would be professionally cleaned and would include a (short) warrantee and probably new water tank and hose.

Good luck.

Supplier #2 has this one at $550 and $650 for the one you mentioned. So still seems like a good price. However, I am not trying to buy an older machine, I am trying to get the best machine I can so if you say pass, I shall pass, moving along to the next ones, but yes I see the difference in the units the newer unit looks just like mine but has a different number. Check! Got it! Thanks again.

If everyone thinks alike, then someone isn't thinking.
Everyone knows something, together we could know everything.
(This post was last modified: 08-16-2014 11:37 PM by Galactus.)
08-16-2014 11:36 PM
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vsheline Online

Advisory Members

Posts: 1,907
Joined: Jul 2012

Machine: S9 VPAP Adapt (USA Model# 36007, not better 36037 or 36067)
Mask Type: Full face mask
Mask Make & Model: F10 or SimPlus w/ 2Liners. MirageQuatro & Gecko gel pad
Humidifier: H5i
CPAP Pressure: 15 EPAP, PS 5-10
CPAP Software: ResScan

Other Comments: Marfan Syndrome, chronic bradycardia, occasional Cheyne-Stokes Respiration

Sex: Male
Location: California, USA

Post: #40
RE: Therapy numbers, lack of them, weight loss, etc
(08-16-2014 04:42 PM)vsheline Wrote:  Take out the water tank and turn over your machine to see whether the REF# is for a 50 series or a 60 series machine. Since your machine is new, it should be a DS260 with the humidifier which allows a heated hose (the 50 series machines and humidifiers do not allow heated hose to be used and rain-out would be a potential problem in the winter).

Hi Galactus,

I think you would want to know whether your existing humidifier is for a series 50 or series 60 machine. If it supports the heated hose option then it is for the 60 series machines.

I do not know if a 60 series humidifier can be used on a 50 series machine, or if a 50 series humidifier can be used with a 60 series machine.

Membership in the Advisory Member group should not be understood as in any way implying medical expertise or qualification for advising Sleep Apnea patients concerning their treatment. The Advisory Member group provides advice and suggestions to Apnea Board administrators and staff on matters concerning Apnea Board operation and administrative policies - not on matters concerning treatment for Sleep Apnea. I think it is now too late to change the name of the group but I think Voting Member group would perhaps have been a more descriptive name for the group.
08-17-2014 12:06 AM
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